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Spanair MD-80 skids of the runway at Madrid

Last post 09-21-2008 7:46 AM by thinkabout. 19 replies.
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  • 08-20-2008 2:23 PM

    • Goose
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    Spanair MD-80 skids of the runway at Madrid

    A passenger plane has skidded off the runway on takeoff at Madrid airport, local media report.

    Casualties are feared, Spanish media say, with reports saying the aircraft belonged to the Spanair airline.

    Spain's El Mundo newspaper reported on its website that some 160 people were on board at the time.

    The cause of the apparent accident remains unknown.

    Source http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7572643.stm

    Anyone have anymore info?

     

    He who laughs last obviously has'nt heard the bad news.
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  • 08-20-2008 2:38 PM In reply to

    Re: Spanair MD-80 skids of the runway at Madrid

  • 08-20-2008 2:39 PM In reply to

    • Batfink
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    Re: Spanair MD-80 skids of the runway at Madrid

     Going from the El Mundo website and on online translation tool it would appear the aircraft (Whatever it is) is on fire and there could be at least two fatalities and up to twenty casualties.

    My wings are like a shield of steel.
  • 08-20-2008 2:59 PM In reply to

    Re: Spanair MD-80 skids of the runway at Madrid

    Google Maps of Madrid Airport


    View Larger Map
    AirSpace - more than just hot air
  • 08-20-2008 3:01 PM In reply to

    • Titch
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    Re: Spanair MD-80 skids of the runway at Madrid

    Spanish authorities now confirming at least 8 fatalities.  Fuselage has broken into two main sections; Spanish media reporting the aircraft as an MD-82, although conflicting reports state it is an A321.

     

    Vidi, Vici, Veni. I saw, I conquered, I came.
  • 08-20-2008 3:02 PM In reply to

    • Goose
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    Re: Spanair MD-80 skids of the runway at Madrid

    Reports that it was on flight JK5200 MAD-LPA......... Type MD-82. Left hand engine caught
    fire on take off and 7 people have died.

    All just report's at the moment

    He who laughs last obviously has'nt heard the bad news.
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  • 08-20-2008 3:11 PM In reply to

    • Goose
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    Re: Spanair MD-80 skids of the runway at Madrid

    Latest news report on elmundo.es (below) is at least 50 dead and the number is rising. one of the left engines caught fire, hence the plane couldn't take off and went off the runway. Aircraft has split in two. At least 20 people have got out so far...looks like it's MD-82 EC-HFP....

    Our thoughts go out to all their families and friends

    He who laughs last obviously has'nt heard the bad news.
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  • 08-20-2008 3:18 PM In reply to

    • Batfink
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    Re: Spanair MD-80 skids of the runway at Madrid

     Confirmed as an MD-80.

    My wings are like a shield of steel.
  • 08-20-2008 3:45 PM In reply to

    Re: BREAKING NEWS: Spanair aircraft said to overrun runway in Madrid

     There are just so many conflicting reports on this, especially the casualties! The Spanish Government have just been quoted as saying 45 people confirmed dead!

     

     

    AirSpace - more than just hot air
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  • 08-20-2008 8:36 PM In reply to

    Re: BREAKING NEWS: Spanair aircraft said to overrun runway in Madrid

     Here is David Learmount giving some analysis of what the investigation may entail:

     

    AirSpace - more than just hot air
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  • 08-21-2008 8:55 AM In reply to

    • Goose
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    Re: BREAKING NEWS: Spanair aircraft said to overrun runway in Madrid

    This was Spains worst disaster in nearly 25 years.....final figures show 153 people lost their lives and only 19 survived this terrible accident, our thoughts go out to all of those lost on this sad day.

    Spanair Flight JK5022, MD-80 EC-HFP originated in Barcelona and was headed for the city of Las Palmas. It was a code-share with Flight LH255 of the German carrier Lufthansa.

    This accident was Spain's worst air disaster in 25 years. Back in 1983 a Boeing 747 operated by the Colombian airline Avianca crashed near Madrid on landing approach, killing 181 people.

    He who laughs last obviously has'nt heard the bad news.
  • 08-21-2008 2:10 PM In reply to

    • Goose
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    Re: BREAKING NEWS: Spanair aircraft said to overrun runway in Madrid

    Spanair says the plane experienced overheating in an air intake valve prior to a first attempt at takeoff. It is not clear if this had anything to do with the crash that killed 153 of the 172 people aboard.
    Company spokesman Javier Mendoza says the device, called an air intake probe, was reporting overheating in the front of the plane under the cockpit.
    He said Thursday that technicians corrected the problem by ''de-energizing'' the probe, or turning it off. He says this is standard procedure.
    Spanair says the plane was cleared by company technicians after the problem was fixed

    Also

    Spanair confirmed an MD-82 was forced to make an emergency landing last Saturday on a flight from Lanzarote in the Canary Islands to Madrid because of problems with both of its engines. The plane landed in the nearby island of Gran Canaria, the destination of yesterday's flight.
    A company official said he did not know if the same plane was involved in both cases."

    He who laughs last obviously has'nt heard the bad news.
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  • 08-23-2008 3:24 AM In reply to

    Re: BREAKING NEWS: Spanair aircraft said to overrun runway in Madrid

    One is staggered at the concept of how the aircraft could have lost directional and lateral control in such relatively benign conditions and from such a very long runway; regardless of the density altitude and the fluky, but light tailwind component. As a retired accident investigator, I know one should not pre-empt the formal releases from the appropriate investigation authority. However, considering the actuality of the known sequence of events, my mind keeps imagining a possible uncontained failure of compressor or turbine blades which then damaged/disrupted/severed some elements of the rear flight controls??? For had there been a major failure of an engine prior to V1, with such a long runway the decision to abort the take-off would have posed low risk...one surmises. I am guessing that there must be video footage of at least part of the take-off. I thought that I had actually seen a few seconds of such a recording but have not been able to sight it since. Did any of you see it?

  • 08-26-2008 3:52 PM In reply to

    • Goose
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    Re: BREAKING NEWS: Spanair aircraft said to overrun runway in Madrid

    Findings Dispute Initial Reports Of Engine Fire

    In the aftermath of last week's devastating takeoff crash in Madrid, investigators immediately focused on witness reports of a fire coming from the left engine nacelle of the Spanair MD-82... but it now appears those reports may have been inaccurate.

    According to the Wall Street Journal, officials are taking a closer look at the flap settings at the time of takeoff, after determining both turbofans were making power as the jet sped down the runway at Madrid Barajas International Airport on August 20.

    People close to the investigation told the WSJ that based on components recovered in the wreckage, along with airport video footage that shows the plane taking off, there's little evidence to support earlier claims the airliner's engine was aflame before the aircraft departed the runway at MAD.

    He who laughs last obviously has'nt heard the bad news.
  • 08-26-2008 4:46 PM In reply to

    Re: BREAKING NEWS: Spanair aircraft said to overrun runway in Madrid

     Some more on this  from a reliable source who has contacted us, there maybe something in this:

     

    "This picture is of the right hand engine with the reverser deployed.

    -Pilots point out that because it is activated hydraulicly it is unlikely to have deployed through impact, though the whole deployment system may have been destroyed on impact.

    -Pilots point out that they  regularly train for take-off with one engine or  with one reverser activated, which is supposed to be technicaly feasible."

    It may take some time for the truth of this to all come out!

    AirSpace - more than just hot air
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  • 09-11-2008 2:03 PM In reply to

    • jorge
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    Re: BREAKING NEWS: Spanair aircraft said to overrun runway in Madrid

    It might have been the result of two problems:

    1-Aircraft misconfigured for take off  

    2-Failure of take off configuration warning, as it seems that the the aircraft could have been "in flight mode"

  • 09-16-2008 12:08 PM In reply to

    • Goose
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    'Wing flaps failed' on Spain jet

    The wing flaps on a plane that crashed in Madrid last month did not open properly during take-off, investigators have found, Spanish media say.

    The investigation discovered that the pilots were unaware of the problem because a cockpit warning alarm did not go off, El Pais newspaper reported.

    The Spanair plane plunged to the ground shortly after take-off, killing 154 people on board. It was the deadliest air crash in Spain in 25 years. Reports in the Spanish media suggest that the Spanair jet may have stalled during take-off because the wing flaps were not properly deployed. The flaps make it easier for aircraft to get off the ground at take-off speeds.

    Investigators have not released any official statement on the disaster, but Spanish media say the issue of the wing flaps came from analysis of the cockpit voice and data recordings.

    The Spanish government has refused to comment on the reports

    Source BBC

    He who laughs last obviously has'nt heard the bad news.
  • 09-19-2008 4:18 PM In reply to

    • Titch
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    Re: 'Wing flaps failed' on Spain jet

    New video footage of the actual impact.  Makes for some chilling viewing.

    God bless the poor buggers that were on-board.....

    http://www.elpais.com/videos/espana/fue/accidente/Barajas/elpvidnac/20080918elpepunac_8/Ves/

     

    Titch

    Vidi, Vici, Veni. I saw, I conquered, I came.
  • 09-20-2008 12:00 AM In reply to

    Re: 'Wing flaps failed' on Spain jet

    As a retired accident investigator, I am sometimes near to tears when I imagine the terrible last moments of passengers on so many avoidable crashes. What a bizarre world we live in when motorcar builders have no problems installing a camera and small screen in order that drivers can view what is behind them before moving. Yet an airline aircraft such as the MD-82 does not have a similar system with a fin-mounted camera so that the pilots can simply glance at a small screen to verify that the aircraft is configured for take-off. Why in God's name don't the regulators just say "DO IT!" I recall, when instructing, my students omitting to set take-off flap. Usually, I just let them experience the situation when they rotated...how different the aircraft felt and how they would have to take some action as the stall-warning horn bleeped; like lower the nose for goodness sake and fly the aeroplane! Regardless of a missed checklist item, and a failed warning system, and a flap position indicator reading Zero Flap, and a density altitude of approx. 4,000 feet, I feel, given such a long runway (6,000 metres is it?) that had the pilot flying reverted to basic Airmanship and rammed the power levers full forward, lowered the nose a few degrees to reduce drag and exercised some cool patience, the aircraft would have continued to accelerate readily to about 1.4 times (only my estimate) the scheduled Vr and flown away quite safely, albeit at a somewhat non-standard deck-angle. I am assuming now that both engines were operating normally. Isn't it a terrible irony that there may well have been a pilot passenger sitting back there who noted the lack of flap but was unable to do anything about raising a concern. It might also have been that one of the cabin crew also noted the anomaly but elected not to grab the phone and urgently query it. And, one wonders, whether the pilots were aware of the unserviceable alerting system? Had they been, then it may have been prudent to double check the few vital items that are essential for a VFR take-off. Like is fuel-flow assured, is the stabiliser trim set, are the flight controls free and fully moving...just the basics for flight really. I presume the MD-82 has a stick-shaker? Was it serviceable? It will be interesting to eventually read of the condition of this aircraft's systems as compared with the Minimum Equipment List's (MEL) requirements.........And, even if the crew elected to accept the aircraft outside some MEL item (and I know it is going on with some carriers) why not despatch the F/O back to take a look at the flap setting; or am I being hopelessy old-fashioned and engaging in historic "back-to-basics" dreaming? But before you scoff too much at an old pilot's musings, note this well. The "basics" of sound airmanship and first principle are still in everday use in many parts of the world such a Papua New Guinea. So you younger pilots; never forget you are, by LAW, in COMMAND and, when all is turning into the proverbial, the first rule is still "FLY THE AEROPLANE"......maybe as you have never flown before. Like so many facets of our technical life, it only matters when it really matters...if you get my drift. I love modern simulators and only wish we had had them when I began airline ops. We used to lose aircraft and crews on training flights. Chief pilots; try to organise more hand-flying time for your crews. But that is another whole subject so I shall shut my mouth now, except to say that I know pilots do their very best when things go bad, and I feel sure that the Spanair chaps did their utmost also. 

  • 09-21-2008 7:46 AM In reply to

    Re: 'Wing flaps failed' on Spain jet

    i agree in the analisys, what i like strongly suggest at the industry is to spend some dollars to install external cameras so the pilots can see what going on outside in case like this and in many other circumstances.

    Airlines now are forced to have stupid cameras around the cockpit door that never again will be useful against the terrorists, the MEL are so stringent on that now.  Somebody realistic imagine the terrorist reply sepember eleven? and whi?

    is more serious put the camera outside the  plane for airworthiness reasons.  

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