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Airliner crashes in Amsterdam

Last post 03-26-2009 4:04 PM by BuzzLightyear. 49 replies.
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  • 02-25-2009 10:14 AM

    • Batfink
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    Airliner crashes in Amsterdam

    From a BBC News Alert -

     A Turkish airliner with 135 people on board is reported to have crashed at Schipol airport in Amsterdam, in the Netherlands.

    For more details: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news 

    My wings are like a shield of steel.
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  • 02-25-2009 10:19 AM In reply to

    • Batfink
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    Re: Airliner crashes in Amsterdam

    My wings are like a shield of steel.
  • 02-25-2009 10:25 AM In reply to

    • Goose
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    Re: Airliner crashes in Amsterdam

    737-800 TC-JGE

    flight TK 1951

    135 passengers onboard

    He who laughs last obviously has'nt heard the bad news.
  • 02-25-2009 10:27 AM In reply to

    • Batfink
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    Re: Airliner crashes in Amsterdam

     The BBC are reporting at least fifty people escaping unhurt which bodes well.

    My wings are like a shield of steel.
  • 02-25-2009 10:40 AM In reply to

    Re: Airliner crashes in Amsterdam

     Video from the scene from a Dutch news broadcaster

    AirSpace - more than just hot air
  • 02-25-2009 10:47 AM In reply to

    Re: Airliner crashes in Amsterdam

     Another close up image from http://www.geenstijl.nl/:

     

    AirSpace - more than just hot air
  • 02-25-2009 11:03 AM In reply to

    • Batfink
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    Re: Airliner crashes in Amsterdam

    The Turkish Transport Minister is being quoted as saying there were no fatalities.
    My wings are like a shield of steel.
  • 02-25-2009 11:07 AM In reply to

    • Goose
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    Re: Airliner crashes in Amsterdam

    Eye witness reports say the aircraft was way to low on approach, if this is the case, it looks like he tried to pull out of it and the rear section hit the ground first, hence the amount of damage to the tail....just my view

    Wind from the SW (220 degrees) at 13 MPH (11 KT)
    Visibility 2 mile(s)
    Sky conditions overcast
    Weather Light drizzle
    Mist
    Temperature 41 F (5 C)
    Dew Point 39 F (4 C)
    Relative Humidity 93%
    Pressure (altimeter) 30.33 in. Hg (1027 hPa)
    ob EHAM 251025Z 22011KT 3500 -DZ BR OVC007 05/04 Q1027 TEMPO 2500

    He who laughs last obviously has'nt heard the bad news.
  • 02-25-2009 11:53 AM In reply to

    • Goose
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    Re: Airliner crashes in Amsterdam

    These pictures show the impact must have been pretty dam hard...god rest their souls

    He who laughs last obviously has'nt heard the bad news.
  • 02-25-2009 2:21 PM In reply to

    Re: Airliner crashes in Amsterdam

    i wonder what the cause(s) has been...one thing i notice is the starboard (it seems?) engine's fan blades seem almost intact (although darkened by the impact) and the engine's cowling and systems have been torn apart...does that mean it could have not been turning very fast at the time of impact? considering that it crash landed short of the runway and tail first by the looks of things, someone would say that they would have tried to reach the runway with more power at least..maybe i am wrong.. or is there another reason…

    when you fly with feathers and wax...fear the hot sun!
  • 02-25-2009 2:34 PM In reply to

    • Goose
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    Re: Airliner crashes in Amsterdam

    Good points

    From eye witnesses the plane came in low and slow. The plane tried to pull up to make it over the A9 motorway, but as itdid the tail dropped loosing further speed. Following that the plane seemed to have stalled, and ended up in the grass field betwen the A9 motorway and the A200 motorway

    This could have been loss of power?

    He who laughs last obviously has'nt heard the bad news.
  • 02-25-2009 2:52 PM In reply to

    Re: Airliner crashes in Amsterdam

     

    do you have metar or a wx obs... it seams like a not predicted downdraft?
  • 02-25-2009 3:04 PM In reply to

    • Goose
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    Re: Airliner crashes in Amsterdam

    Metar 250955z 21010kt 4500 Br Bkn007 Ovc008 05/04 Q1027 Tempo 2500

    He who laughs last obviously has'nt heard the bad news.
  • 02-25-2009 3:15 PM In reply to

    Re: Airliner crashes in Amsterdam

    So what are we dealing with in here? From what I could read, no fire so that makes me think of fuel shortage... But nobody is metnionning the fact that engines could have shut down prior to impact... Any hint?

  • 02-25-2009 3:22 PM In reply to

    Re: Airliner crashes in Amsterdam

     

    thanks Goose

     

     i just saw it... and it doesn't seam there were a lots of wind either!

     Well we'll see what will come out of the investigation!

  • 02-25-2009 3:22 PM In reply to

    • Goose
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    Re: Airliner crashes in Amsterdam

    According to the Turkish press, the plane was loaded with 9,600 litres of fuel in Istanbul before taking off
    He who laughs last obviously has'nt heard the bad news.
  • 02-25-2009 11:50 PM In reply to

    Re: Airliner crashes in Amsterdam

    Even if it was, the aircraft stalled due to powerloss, and I believe that the plane may had a fuel leak, because it is clearly a fact that the plane had no, or little fuel left, because the plane didn't cought fire and they didn't smell any kerosine.

     So, the plane had a fuel leak, and on final approach they run out of fuel and lost enginethrust due to low or no fuel, and was loosing altitude quickly, and just when the pilots tried to pull out of the dive they stalled when the speed came to 0 and letterly fell out of the sky, as we see in the pictures that the trial left by the aircraft was as big as the plane itself, so it fell out of the sky and slipped away a little bit because of the muddy ground.

     The pilots could also known they were out of fuel and tried to make an emergency landing on the muddy land, which was discussed here in Holland on television.... But the aproach seemd very normal, till 10 second before impact when they fell into a free-fall.

    But we'll hear the results of the voicerecorder and datarecorders tomorow, then we'll know if the pilots tried to land the plane on the mud or tried to pull out of the stall/dive and fell down, or both...

     We'll see, Big Smile

  • 02-26-2009 2:57 PM In reply to

    Re: Airliner crashes in Amsterdam

    Although everything is possible....it seams a little bit strange that nowadays Crews and FDs plan a relatively short trip like IST-AMS and the plane runs out of fuel just on short final... and as far as we know the Crew did not declare emergency/minimum fuel (at least 30' prior commencing the approach!). FMCs will recall your attention if your fuel on board is not enoght!

    The 737NG "historically" never had fuel leak problem and even if, you have plenty of altenate in the IST-AMS leg and TK has procedure either for cruise checks (fuel check during cruise) and for diversion to an alternate for technical difficulties. 

    The downdraft hypothesis is still one possible scenario, expecially if the plane was flying really "close" to Vref!

  • 02-26-2009 3:20 PM In reply to

    Re: Airliner crashes in Amsterdam

    ... or maybe a double eng flame-out due to bird-strike?!?

  • 02-26-2009 4:08 PM In reply to

    • Goose
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    Re: Airliner crashes in Amsterdam

    Reconstruction using flight sim

    http://www.youtube.com/blenderpedia

     

    He who laughs last obviously has'nt heard the bad news.
  • 02-26-2009 4:19 PM In reply to

    • Goose
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    Re: Airliner crashes in Amsterdam

    I think this photo really highlights the significant damage done on impact...OMG!!

    Source http://www.rtl.nl/

    He who laughs last obviously has'nt heard the bad news.
  • 02-26-2009 7:50 PM In reply to

    Re: Airliner crashes in Amsterdam

    Asking about the fuel issue, I was more thinking about a crew thinking that "they'll make it" which is by the way some basic CRM behavior rather than lack of alternates...

    A bird strike sounds unlikely, first of all, coz that would have been reported. I also have doubts about the emergency landing... Ground hit would have been longer.

     The best thing to do is probably to wait for the DFDR datas to be published.

  • 02-27-2009 6:42 AM In reply to

    Re: Airliner crashes in Amsterdam

    1.Fuel contamination?!? Maybe but 0.5 NM from TD you must be pretty unlucky!

    2. Engine problem related to the autothrottle sys?!? Maybe but the Crew are trained to disconnect the A/T and A/P and fly the plane like in the old days!  One concern could be if the Crew were already visual with the rwy!

    3. Engine malfunction capable to generate a loss of thrust on both engine at the same time?!? Maybe but without a previous seriuous CAUTION/WARNING in the EICAS?

    Still .... 

     

  • 02-27-2009 6:43 AM In reply to

    Re: Airliner crashes in Amsterdam

    That's an interesting pics!

  • 02-27-2009 10:20 AM In reply to

    • Goose
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    Re: Airliner crashes in Amsterdam

    In neither case was the weather on approach a challenge, given that Schipols runways that have first class navigation aids and high intensity approach and runway lighting. Plus the crew were already visual with the runway.

    Bird strike, i very much doubt....there would have been reports from other aircraft of birds in the area...

    I think it's all down to loss of power...looks like they needed thrust and the engines did not respond....have we any pilots on here that can give their opinion??

    The aircraft was grounded for repairs on the 23rd Feb...after the crew detected a problem with the "Master Caution Light" just before take off.

    The crash seen from a police helicopter

    He who laughs last obviously has'nt heard the bad news.
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