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Best Military Aircraft in the past 100 years

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SPOOKY Posted: Sat, Mar 1 2008 3:35 AM

Having flown almost every type of military aircraft made since the P-51 Mustang (and it's nemesis, the Mitsubishi Zero) I can easily report that the F-4 Phantom ll is the most versatile and longest serving military jet ever made in the following categories: Best Fighter, Best Fighter/Bomber and Best Interceptor on the planet.

This aircraft did it ALL folks! It could be configured to any standard and was so far ahead of it's time, that some versions continued to fly until the late 90's. It was engineered in the early 60's.

My favorite version is the F-4G (Germany) with Canadian engines, which far over-powered anything on the planet at that time (the SR-71 could fly much faster, but took awhile to get past 4000 mph. Also, for you SR-71 speed freaks, the SR-71 could not handle, it was made to fly straight and fast only).

Not that it was ever made public, but the F-4G version could fly at up to 4000 miles per hour for short periods. I once raced a much newer (by some 20 years) Soviet Blackjack bomber, over water near beautiful South Africa and kept pace with it until it cleared South African airspace. The wings glowed red afterwards (I'm not kidding) and I was ordered to fly at much lower speeds for over one hour, to cool the wings, prior to landing.

All F-4s featured a unique wing and tail design, which gave it one-of-a-kind handling characteristics. Many enemy fighter pilots never 'locked-up' a Phantom during their entire career, because giving some rudder on the F-4 caused strange things to happen - as compared to other fighters. Instead of losing altitude in a turn, the F-4 gained altitude while turning and could stay in a continuous turn (at dogfight speeds - 250-550 mph) all day long! This is a great advantage in a dogfight, as at low altitudes, the competition was crashing into the ground trying to stay in the turn, in order to 'lock-on' to a Phantom.

As I mentioned previously, most F-4s were more than powerful enough, with the possible exception of J-79 'smoker' engine and the RR Spey engine variants, which were designed - not for explosive getaways, but for other purposes.

This advantage - present even with a full load of ordinance! - allowed many Phantom pilots to fight their way successfully into a zone, drop their loads successfully, then protect other bombers coming into the zone successfully, or back up other fighter pilots close-by successfully, or hundreds of miles away. With such instant speed available, a dogfight starting 200 miles away, was only a few seconds travel time in the F-4!

Astounding power, weird handling, huge weapons choice, unbelievable ordinance tonnage capability (yes, I did say 'tonnage') tough enough to withstand small arms fire and other AA, long service life, easy maintenance, parts interoperabililty, nuclear capable, aircraft carrier landing capable, all-weather, every fuel tolerant - what else do you want in a fighter, fighter/bomber and interceptor?

By the way, even today some things about the F-4 Phantom ll are still classified! Sorry I can't tell you more.

 

"SPOOKY"   

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Captain

Hey Spooky, good arguments and interesting to hear that some info is classified! Go on, tell us some classified stuffStick out tongue 

AirSpace - more than just hot air

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Captain
rapier replied on Sat, Mar 1 2008 7:45 PM

Something sounds odd .......

F-4G (Germany) ...... but the German variant is the F-4F

with Canadian engines ...... but the German variant uses German built (MTU) J79-17A turbojets

4000 mph ...... ?!?!?!?!? ...... titanium made Phantom ?

Blackjack bomber intercept over water near South Africa ...... both too far away from their bases

If the Phantom is so extraordinary, why they are building costly new generation aircraft ? 

 

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Dragon Lady replied on Sun, Mar 2 2008 10:57 AM

"F-4G (Germany) ...... but the German variant is the F-4F"

Quite right Rapier.

The F-4G is the USAF "Wild Weasel" variant used for attacking SAM sites.

 

Make it so, number one
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First Officer
dakota67 replied on Sun, Mar 2 2008 5:04 PM

Just to put things in perspective, I doubt very much whether the aircraft holds any secrets, at least as far as its performance is concerned. On special highly visible record attempts, an F4 achieved 1,600 mph (1,400 knots) using water-injection. But more usually, its max. speed was Mach 2.23, 1,470 knots and, of course, much lower at low level. Cruise speed was around 500 knots...depending on configuration etc. The highest zoom-climb was a tad over 100,000 feet with dead engines and back in the '60s there were many time-to-climb records set. There is a mammoth volume of credible information available on the many variants.

A truly wonderful aircraft of course, which should be placed very well up on our list.

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First Officer
dakota67 replied on Sun, Mar 2 2008 5:19 PM

Whoops....belay that 1,470 knot figure above and replace with 1,280 knots..and that's an order sailor!

It is very early here in Noo Zealand and the figures on my trusty 45 year old Jepp. CR-2 whizz wheel are getting smaller as my eyes get older. But we have travelled many miles together so I still like the feel of the non-electric fail-safe device.......

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rapier replied on Sun, Mar 2 2008 8:02 PM

Speed record (absolute)

22 December 1961

Edwards AFB, California

Lieutnant Colonel Robert B. Robinson (USMC)

F-4H-1 (142260)

1,606.342 mph (2585.086 km/h)

 

Source: McDonnell F-4 Phantom Spirit of the Skies

             Edited by Jon Lake

             Aerospace Publishing Ltd - 1992

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SPOOKY replied on Tue, Mar 4 2008 4:18 AM

Thank you for your email.
  
  Germany built (and rebuilt) many variants of the F-4 aircraft through
its service life. Some were interceptors, some pure fighters and some,
fighter/bombers.
 

Different configurations required variations in performance envelope
- therefore, several different engines (and tail designs) were tried and used.
  
  To quote you, "...... but the German variant uses German built (MTU)
J79-17A turbojets..." is like saying Ford Motor Company only produces
one car line and uses only one engine! Of course, every nation receiving
fighter jets tweaks them to suit the local situation - including
engine mods or outright replacement.
  
  The Cold War as far as air power is concerned, was a very different
war in Europe than here in North America, with MUCH different
requirements for aircraft - and pilots, by the way.
  
  Not all of this information has been made public - as I pointed out
in my post - some aspects of the F-4 Phantom ll remain classified to
this day, sorry I can't say more.
  
  Yes, 4000 miles per hour. I don't know what they were made of - I
just flew them. If I knew advanced alloy metallurgy I might be able to
help somewhat, but would not be allowed to tell you anyways. Sorry. But it
is almost the same material that is used today for air superiority
aircraft.
  
  "Too far away from their bases..." Wrong. During the Cold War
military aircraft were based all over the world. We flew from South Africa's
own base - among others - worldwide. A strong contingent of German
aircraft were based in South Africa and I was privileged to be based there
for a short time.
  
  The thinking at the time was along these lines. 'South Africa is home
to many valuable Cold War materials (ores) required for the
manufacture of military equipment of the highest order - not to mention a very
strategic piece of land/sea space. If the Soviets very suddenly invaded
and possessed that nation (which would have been well within their
capabilities at that time) it would be extremely difficult to evict them.
South Africa's forces, no matter how valiant, would lose in one day's
fighting.'
  
  We were there at the invitation of the South African government and
the Soviets sent the odd test our way, just to see if the deterent
(German F-4s and other planes) were still viable. (Soviet pilots by the way,
were very professional and competent, although the political systems
were at that time on a collision-course).
  
  I must say that the South African forces, although tiny in comparison
to Germany, let alone the Soviet Union, were extremely brave and ready
to take on any task, no matter how mind-numbing the odds against them.
Something needs to be said about their courage and their sacrifice -
we were proud to be there assisting them. Planes are just pieces of
metal, its the human factor that makes the difference in any cold or hot
war.
  
  Regarding your comment, "If the Phantom is so extraordinary, why they
are building costly new generation aircraft ?" is well-taken. However,
as good as a 1960's designed aircraft could be, and it was light-years
ahead of its time, the competition closed and surpassed that gap.
  
  But for its time it was almost untouchable in the hands of an
experienced pilot. Phantom's were lost only on account of inexperienced
pilots, running out of fuel during an 'overwhelming odds' dogfight (can't
stop for air-to-air refueling in the middle of a dogfight) where the enemy
would suddenly and unexpectedly, throw 5, then 7, then 10, or 15
fighter jets at an unsuspecting single F-4 or double F-4 formation, just to
see how good we were. If there were other F-4s in the vicinity they
were only a minute or a few seconds away. Only very rarely did we lose a
Phantom due to a mechanical.
  
  Why are they building new generations of aircraft? The F-4, as good
as it was, was designed in the 60's. Therefore its ability to turn
suddenly is leisurely by todays standards, also its roll rate is slower than
jets of today. Like they say, "If you can't turn - you burn."
  
  Germany provided exceptional world-class training to it's pilots and
support staff. Similarly, the U.S Navy, U.S. Air Force and U.S.
Marines, all provided outstanding training and support for F-4 pilots, although
tactics and objectives differed widely between those services. The F-4
met and often exceeded those requirements. As it was a warplane, designed
for war - or at the very least deterence - the surplus capability was
very welcome during emergency situations.
  
  
  It is my personal view that the U.S. and it's allies won the Cold War
because they were able to outspend the Soviets during the arms race.
We were only able to do so because capitalism was (is) so much more
efficient at wealth creation that we could afford to win and they couldn't.
Some of us believe that we helped keep the peace until that objective
could be met with the peaceful dissolution of the USSR.
  
  
  Thanks for your questions. May you always have good air beneath your
wings.
  
  SPOOKY

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rapier replied on Tue, Mar 4 2008 9:04 PM

Dear Sir,

You are telling us about the existence of a very secret, very advanced and, I think, completely reworked (in materials, structure and engines) variant of the ubiquitous F-4 Phantom II, more close in performance to the X-15 than to the SR-71 (twice faster), but with an important plus: a maneuvering capability enabling it to outstrip every other aircraft, something like a Ferrari of the sky.

A truly remarkable piece of news !!!

At the same time, facing some legitimate doubt, you are hiding behind a sort of professional confidentiality (eg ... sorry I can't tell you more ... or ... sorry I can't say more ...).

In essence, Sir, what you are asking from us is nothing less than an act of faith.

I may be wrong, but ..... sorry,  I think this is not fair.

With the utmost respect.

Rapier

 

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First Officer
dakota67 replied on Wed, Mar 5 2008 12:36 AM

Oh dear oh dear! When I attempt to comprehend an F-4 that could achieve 4,000 mph in level flight, I am reminded of that great "Dad's Army" TV series. Now what what is that Captain Mainwaring used to say to Corporal Jones when the good old NCO had been engaging in some flight of fancy.........?

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Batfink replied on Wed, Mar 5 2008 9:13 AM
Some fascinating information there Spooky, but seriously, psychiatrists are there for a reason.

My wings are like a shield of steel.

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COOL HAND replied on Sat, Mar 8 2008 8:45 PM

If SPOOKY says it, It's The Truth!

After his stint in the German forces, he ended up at Malmstrom, AFB and we USN pilot's know of SPOOKY'S record. He was the best pilot that the USAF ever produced, period.

We salute you SPOOKY, just stay away from Miramar. OK? We've had enough of your sonic booms on early Sunday mornings.

"Cool Hand"

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rapier replied on Sun, Mar 9 2008 5:19 PM

..... If SPOOKY says it, It's The Truth! .....

Really authoritative !!!

 

 
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