Titch:The 2008/2009 edition was produced by Buchair using their own data; Flight merely acted as the publisher; the data was all ready to go to print before the take-over had been announced
Oh, I read the front pages of the 2008/2009 book Titch, thanks for checking. And fair enough it has not quite been 2 years since Flight took over, but it has been two books that they've been involved with. Can you tell me who decided on the poor sort order of the 2008/2009 book? Was that Buchair or Flight? At least you could clear that up for us all.
Titch:Again, wrong. I know for a fact that 95% of the research team at Flight are active enthusiasts and long-term users of the JP books. But let's put things into perspective here: Flight is a business. JP is a product of that business. Just because the majority of Flight's products are aimed at the professional sector, doesn't mean that anything to do with 'spotters' is classed as second-rate
I'm an Air Traffic Controller and an active enthusiast, doesn't mean I'll route a couple of aircraft about so that people can see them!! My role in the business is moving aircraft around safely, because thats the nature of the business, just like Flights priority is providing commercial information. I'm sure "spotters" are not at the top of Flights list to please, just like they're not at the top of mine. Anyhow, its the way the original statement was written. It was made to look like an excuse for a bad publication.
Titch:The detractors out there need to get over this 'woe is me' mentality - JP is not the same book (with the same tired format) that it was 20 years ago. I'd like to think that Flight's take-over from Buchair will give the JP books a well-needed facelift to bring them (finally) into the 21st century.
Looks exactly the same to me, just with more adverts and poorer quality pictures.
Titch:Okay, so what would you rather put your faith in, spotting-wise? A book that is updated purely from occasional sightings from the far-flung reaches of the globe, or one that is updated using the resources of enthusiasts and professionals actually based in these places who have a greater understanding of the local aviation scene than any of us here in the UK? Personally, I'd rather see a greater number of contributors from all over the world feeding data into one central place so that the rest of us can enjoy a publication that contains the most current data available anywhere
Of course all your information is, in the majority, going to come from volunteers. If you get any information from Av Letter for example, most of that is voluntery - I provide info for it when I can. But again, the statement didn't read like you wanted "information". It read that you wanted people to come and work for the book as a volunteer. You will always get info from spotters, probably better and more accurate than from airlines themselves. This, of course, does save Flight money as the info "comes in" rather than "gets sourced".
As for your other statements that you have updated the Buchair outdated information, well thats fair enough, I'm sure you have. But you also seem to have added totally out of date information too, yet ommited other stuff. I'm still struggling to find "biz" airliners that were originally listed under the country of registration - the VP-B and VP-C ones for instance.
I class the JP as a bible also, believe it or not thats why I want it to be correct. It's the only book I buy thats for sure, and I still will. Yes, in a book this size there are always mistakes, and I'm sure there are in other books. It's just these other book providers do not provide a forum to receive complaints or constructive criticism. If you don't want to listen to any of these complaints, then remove the forum, that way you can just believe everyone is happy with everything. Can you not see that the "windgers" want the book to be better than ever?
And, if Flight doesn't have a business strategy that involves JP, why did they buy it? Not for fun.
Whinge over
Tony
Just as an example of your out of date information:
Metroliner BC-789D EC-ITP has been flying around the UK for over a year and a half for Manx2/Euro Continental. You still have this as ZS-PDW of Norse Air, SA.
It has been published in many magazines and internet sites as EC-ITP since early 2008 but you still haven't updated the information
I have over 30 "biz" airliners missing from the new book. Can't find hide nor hair of them, you just seem to have ommited any that you're not sure of the owner instead of leaving them in the "Government/Corporate/Executive" area which would have been the answer
The LAN fleet does not have First Class any more. I seem to spend my life sitting in their 767s so I can tell you from personal experience!
There are some all white ZS-xxx DC-9s or MD-80s that are floating around the Middle East at the moment, at least two of them.
There are additional 4L-xxx IL-76s floating around the Middle East at the moment.
I will provide additional details as and when I can, now that I have found the feedback forum.
Spottie
I have every issue from 1980 to 2008/09 in book form.
Last year's issue (2008/09) was not up to my standards. I did not like the reordering of the fleets. Bad placement of ads.
I was not going to buy this year's issue. However, I came across an offer for the CD version at half price so I bought it.
I had never purchased the CD version because I could never find out for sure if I'd be able to export the data. Also, the cost for the CD version was the same as the book version yet it costs less to produce the CD version. After getting the CD version today, I found out it was worse than I expected. It's only a PDF of the book.
Problems with this:
- The bookmarks for the countries (or "countrys" as it spelled in the bookmarks) do not line up. They all appear to go to the middle of the page that the country is on. With the bookmarks open and the size set to fit width, if I click A2 Botswana, the listing begins at the bottom of the page. I click B China and nothing shows up - I need to scroll down to see the first part of China. In other words, rather than taking me to the start of the country's entry, I usually have to scroll up or down to find it.
- Speaking of countries: Why not change it to an alphabetical bookmark of countries in the PDF version?
- Export: Definitely can't do that! I would like to be able to export selected entries to a spreadsheet or database for easier access. That way I could search, for example, all DC-6's in the United States, Canada, and the UK in one search.
- The type is inconsistent. Some lines are lighter than others.
- Be consistent! ONE company (Continental) is listed in fleet number order while all others are listed in aircraft order. It should be all or none - not one and the rest.
Good point: I can adjust the size of the print to make it easier to read.
To clarify my posting above, I find the CD version to be useful but it is not nearly as useful as it could be if it was more than just a PDF version of the hard copy.
I can understand the need for security but considering you don't have printing costs associated with the PDF version, why is the price the same as the printed version?
The CD version should be more than just a PDF. The whole purpose of an electronic version is to be able to be able to do things that you cannot do with a hard copy. Below are just a few of the things I expected to be able to do with an electronic copy:
- Find all operators based at XYZ airport
- Find all current operators of DC-6's
- Summarize the number of aircraft operated by a particular operator. Yes, I can count the number of lines of aircraft for a particular operator but some operators have over 400 aircraft. Easy to lose count with that many aircraft.
- Summarize how many aircraft are operated by all of the airlines in a given country
If I could do the above and more with an electronic version, I could see paying as much as the hard copy. Having a non-sortable, static PDF copy of the book version is NOT worth the cost.
So you don't think I'm entirely negative on the CD version, there are some advantages to the PDF version that are not found in the hard copy such as being able to click on an operator's URL and have it open up and, although limited, there is the search feature.