Four's Front Office

Wow. That's a huge difference. You can really see how they can get 10 planes completed each month if each section comes as complete as that.

Still far too many switches and knobs.
I'd like more automation and those big horns of a 'steering wheel' need to go. A slide-away stick that would center in front of the driver would be more to my liking.

Very cool to see, but I can't understand the yoke. Why is it mounted all the way down on the floor? It seems to me like an unnecessary intrusion into the crew's leg area for a fly-by-wire aircraft.

Whaaat? No sidestick? No table?

A typical Boeing cockpit - really gorgeous! Thank God Boeing didn't go with a sidestick, and I hope they never will!

No Airbus! The yoke needs to stay, it's not as inobtrusive as it seems, it's common to most other airliners, and it's not Airbus.

Relatively similar layout to the 757/767, especially the overhead panel.

I've flown both the 737-family and the A320-family - give me a yoke in a crosswind but any other time I would prefer a sidestick!

Apart from 5 large LCD screens, it's the same old boring Boeing flight deck, looking the same as the early 80's 75/76! Seems like a lot of talk for nothing!

I like the little throttle condoms :)

I love it! the big displays and the design of the glaresheild. "it's the same old boring Boeing flight deck, looking the same as the early 80's 75/76!" ok, every airbus cockpit is the same old boring thing. keep the switches and knobs. with all the technology out there boeing still makes it look like a cockpit, boeing maintains its class.

Don't know what you people are talking about . . . that cockpit is GORGEOUS! No sidestick, keep with the tradition and not be an Airbus! Keep up the good work, Boeing!!

Thank goodness they didn't go with that pooh pooh brown color!

Right, why is it that so many are so quick to criticize? I never built a real plane myself, but I bet is not that easy or simple. Yet, we start labeling this and that as bad, ugly things. This is a blog to inform us about new planes (mostly the B787 and A380), so why not take it as it is instead of just bashing a company just because we don't agree with how they decide to do things. This is childish!

'No sidestick, keep with the tradition and not be an Airbus! ''

.....Yet it still has FBW and other features seen on previous airbus aircraft.

Airbus did invent these things, they just were the first to use them on airliners.

Yes keep it real! Boeing is the best far better then the airbus stupid side-stick! I love boeing and will continue to love it always! Havnt herd this yet"If It Aint Boeing I Aint Going!" I stand for this 110%. Go BOEING!

This cockpit is out dated guys! Such an advanced aircraft and you still got knobs and switches. I fly the B-777 and I know your going for the same type rating, But with an aircraft this advanced, dont leave us pilots out of the fun!

looks old nothing new to look at

C'mon people, it's a cockpit. It looks great. And who cares as long as you get from point A to point B? Boeing is an aircraft manufacturing company, not an interior design firm.

@ mike- the plane is fly be wire, but that just means that there arent wires that contact the yoke to the controls or throttles to engines. now when they get moved, it sends a message to the computers, which then sends out a message to the components. the only other system to control the planes is the sidestick. which personally i dont like. but boeing has always used the yoke, and hope and doubt they will change that. the 777 is also FBW, and has the yoke.

i love this cockpit! it is clean, but yet still looks like a classic panel. love the 787 Dreamliner on the top of the overhead panel. will love seeing this in the new B747-8 also... now that is gonna look really nice!

While at first glance it may look like any other Boeing flight deck, I see a couple of things I like, plus I suspect the majority of the new features are driven through the computers.
Looking at the MCP, I like the fact you can select a Flight Path Angle or V/S and select either heading or track as one of your roll modes. A couple of welcome additions.
As for the stick/yoke debate, despite being a 737 pilot I would prefer a side stick but with Boeing flight control laws and feedback. Hopefully when the 737 replacement comes out they will ignore airlines like Southwest and go for a clean slate design.
Well done and keep the photos coming please!

I'm always amused by people who slam the sidestick design because only Airbus seems to incorporate it. I suggest that airlines give the pilots what they want; if that happens to be a sidestick, forego "tradition" and put it in there. The same goes with knob and switch replacements.

Nick I don't believe that you are a pilot, much less a 777 pilot. To all you Airbus boys- get over it. There is nothing like this plane.

Fellows

Beautiful cockpit, but I think that the yoke is completely outdated and useless in a Fly-By-Wire aircraft. The sidestick is much more ergonomic and logical, together with the sliding table which it permits to be used. I've flown yoke and sidestick aircraft, and the sidestick is much better to operate and much more confortable. The use of the yoke seems much more a conservative and traditionalist behavior of its supporters and Boeing, and a way of not accept that Airbus was right with the sidestick. Same for the 777 and the controls with motion.

Also, the glareshield is much cramped and crowded, it's not necessary all those buttons. The glareshield of some McDonnell Douglas (MD-11 and 717) and Airbus is much more logical with the push-or-pull concept and much less buttons.

Thanks!

Three things...

First,

Why didn't they make the yoke personally selectable. Keep a couple in the coat cupboard for those who can't get over it. Preflight if prefered you could pull it out and shove it into a hole in the floor, this would disable their table and automatically stow a sidestick - thunderbirds style....
Bet in a few months watching the other bloke putting his books/laptop/meal on his table the yokes would gather a lot of dust.

Second,

What no manufacturer seams to get right are the sun shades.... Sounds like a small thing but the sun always gets in straight to you eyes wherever it can and this beast looks no better than most. Big thing for those of us that chase the sun or come on watch at dawn.

Third and finally,

What marketing design guru got his hands on the cockpit. Sorry but a few curvy overhead panels and advertising "787 dreamliner" don't make the cockpit any more modern. A straight line on the top of the glareshield would be far more important - Captain's going to land right wing down F/O left wing down - just like the A330....

Regardless - pay me the money and I'll fly it.

Boeing..There is no substitute!(A Whale Pilot).

By the way Mr. "EH" that 'nick' posting was mine,Ricci,which my name was on the next posting with some one eles thoughts.Yes I'm a B-777 with types in other Boeing A/C. How can you say Im not a pilot and what I fly! I WILL be Flying this B787 because it WILL be the same type. Its the same cockpit as the B777 (overall,I know thiers some Dif.)But all I said was I wish it was ALL brand new! Dont get me wrong, this A/C is above all. That does include Airbus! Thanks!

First, Boeing thought long and hard about utilizing the sidestick. However, they went to the the pilots and the airlines for suggestions and opinions, just as they did during the 777 design. The yoke won out. It is also more of a comonality issue. The 787 incorporates flight control feedback actuators mounted just below the floor to compensate for the lack of flight control feel because the aircraft does not have a cable driven flight control system. Boeing tries to keep the fleet types common for easier certification and airline crossover.

Not a pilot, but Bradley Fighting Vehicles had a yoke at the turret control for the gunner and a sidestick for the commander. For just slewing the turret on way or another, sidestick was fine, but for precision, I would prefer the yoke.

Probably the next generation of transports won't have a flight deck. Heck, all they need is a small centralized avionics bay just forward of the wheel bays.
Technology marches on.

Probably the next generation of transports won't have a flight deck. Heck, all they need is a small centralized avionics bay just forward of the wheel bays.
Technology marches on.

You guys are nuts.
Yoke or not yoke, the 787 is a success.

Wake-up guys, the side stick is not a sign of modernity.
Have you ever asked the car manufacturers to change the way we drive?
We are happy with this steering wheel.

John: Tuché!

You can say alot about both - in the end they both work!

Looks like a nice office.

By the look of the MCP, overhead panel and the pedestal one can clearly see that it's a Boeing.

Good thing that Boeing opted to keep the yoke, even if it has just artificial feedback it's still bettter than a sidestick when it comes to crosswind landings, the tripple seven is a good example on that.

HUD (Head Up Display)
Since nobody seems to mention it, I would ask this question.
What do you think of HUD?
This is new for commercial airliner.
Do you like it?
Maybe you don't know until you use it.
Is there any pilot who used it out there?

Yasobara

the HUD is not new. There are planes from the 727 to the 777 that have HUDs. A HUD has been a customer option on the 777 since it first flew. Alaska has HUDs on a bunch of their planes

the HUD is not new. There are planes from the 727 to the 777 that have HUDs. A HUD has been a customer option on the 777 since it first flew. Alaska has HUDs on a bunch of their planes

Be advised that ugly hump on top of the glareshield with the three displays is a Flight Test only addition. The center one is time and the outboard ones are digital data displays for flight test data.

There are other additions in the flight deck that will be peculiar to the flight test planes and removed before delivery to the customer.

Boys,

I Think that the yoke is always going to stay on Boeing aircraft because it is on of their staple images. Also the yoke is way better in emergency's and better to use that a side stick.

The Best plane is an Airbus but made by Boeing!!!

Along side the surveys Boeing did when looking at the Yoke is the feedback system. The vast Majority of pilots wanted their flight controls eg Yoke and Throttles to move with respect to the actual flight controls/engine settings, thus the Yoke and throttles will move in autopilot giving a visual que to the operation of the aircraft.

There is no confusion, if the throttles are fully advanced the engines go to full power, if the autopilot rolls the aircraft left the yoke rolls left.

Whats the Airbus saying? Oh yes...

"Whats it doing now?"

Eh... I'll be impressed when they remove the windshields. They're useless anyway... hell the plane basically flies itself... why not save a bunch of money on fuel and make the nose as aerodynamic as possible (remove the windshield bumps). I guess people probably don't like the idea of pilots not being able to physically see out of the plane... but it's not like it matters. You can fly the plane with 0 visibility w/o a problem... or there'd be huge problems :)

Yoke vs Side Stick...

(1) I guess the Yoke gives you finer control with two hands on the yoke -- greater range of motion = finer adjustment precision. The central positioning and rotary roll action also promotes symmetrical human responses to either side which is not the case when you twist your wrist on a side stick configuration.

(2) The biggest ergonomical problem I see with the Airbus configuration is not really the side stick per say but the fact that you have to fly left handed in one seat and right handed in the other.

(3) On the plus side, the side stick stays out way of the pilot. And really, most of the time spent in the air does not see the pilots grabbing either the stick or the yoke, so having the implement tucked away is a luxury.

I like the cockpit. Yeah it's not a huge difference from what came before in terms of the switches and knobs, but those screens and the HUD is where the magic is. :)

I just feel with my experience with the 747, 767 and 777 I could get in, start it and take off without much trouble, and that's worth something.

The 787 has the yoke because the 777 and all before it have the yoke. One of their main focuses was a short transition course between the 777 and 787. (no, it won't be a common type rating). For the same reason the flap lever has the same numbers on it as the 777 (and many before it), even though the flaps are actually nowhere near those numbers (it would have been a lot simpler to just go to 1,2,3,4 like Airbus).

The crosswind issue is not a yoke/stick issue (though many infer that it is). In the Airbus airplanes, the stick roll-command is rate of roll just as it is on the 787 yoke. However, in the Airbus, once your desired sideslip bank angle is achieved, you must put the stick back to neutral. On the the 787, rudder pedals also induce a rate of role so you CAN cross control in a crosswind (the opposite rudder's roll input cancels out the cross-controlled yoke input. The roll and yaw flight control laws are actually one law on the 787 (called P-beta). Boeing could have easily put in a sidestick and made it work just like the yoke does.

Talking to Boeing flight control folks, and fielding their remarks about the sidestick, it is apparent to me that they didn't really fully understand or appreciate the sidestick anyway. Much of it comes down to personal preference, as we see right here on this short comments list.

The 787, like all previous Boeings before it, does require trim, and provides more feedback to the pilot through the yoke and thrust levers than the Airbus aircraft. Generally a good thing.

Furthermore, I think the yoke/sidestick debate was over once they selected the yoke for the 777. After that "commonality" ruled the roost. It's my understanding that the folks at UAL insisted on the yoke for the 777, but may have come to a different conclusion now that they have more Airbus experience. (I'm sure not all will agree with that).

There are some other areas where Boeing failed to pickup damn good ideas from Airbus, such as: Managed speed in the terminal area (it's all selected speed on the Boeings); Ground Speed Mini function (protection against decreasing headwind windshears on approach; no flaps one maximum extension speed symbol on the PFD; an angle of attack limit protection that allows for holding full back stick to achieve maximum performance maneuvers (terrain, traffic, etc.); allowing the selected heading bug to go away when in LNAV; going 250 (instead of 240) below 10,000; not automatically turning off the center tank pumps when they should be off, and some others.

I don't much care for the CDU emulation either (no hardware cdu, it's just another display on the MFD (buttons and all), but it cuts down on parts, so the engineers (who don't have to use it) and the bean counters love it.

The 787 will be a fine plane to fly, and have a better safety record than the airbus.

The A320 is one of the worst aircraft, because they took the pilot out of the seat (yes I prefer the yoke) and put some software programmer in the seat instead. Crash after crash because they lied to the pilot, or prevented the pilot from saving his own bottom (the weight on wheels limit switch that prevents use of the brakes is a great example).

Boeing all the way. Still flown by pilots, world wide.

But no sovs will learn it through mean transition course

I want to comment on the yoke/sidestick thing not from a pilot's view, but as technician. I work at KLM as a 737 engineer, and these yokes are a pain in the butt. The rudder/brake pedals are hard to reach this way, and it just makes the whole thing cramped.

It might be a nice office when [s]you're[/s] the computers are flying these things, but from a maintenance point of view it's too cramped.

When do designers start taking the people who are actually maintaining these things into account?

Awesome.... Plane... Looks Promising... Think Airbus Needs something special now....

but will it ever fly!???

As a general aviation pilot, I have flown aircraft with side sticks, yokes, and center sticks... and I have adapted to each one. I think that with the thousands of commercial pilots flying airliners around the world, each and everyone will have his/her own favorites... some will like the yoke, and others will like the side stick... but both do the same so it comes down to pilot preference. Given time, it's just merely another way to control the aircraft.

Airbus and Boeing make great products that perform as they should, and neither company is better than the other.

Well comparison between a Boeing and Airbus is like buying a Ferrari(Boeing) to a Lada(Airbus)