The Orion crew exploration vehicle looks set to return not only as an escape capsule but also as a beyond low Earth orbit spacecraft according to NASA administrator Charles Bolden
In today's Senate appropriations subcommittee hearing Bolden said that Orion would become a programme of incremental improvement to realise a spacecraft that can conduct missions beyond low Earth orbit (LEO)
On 1 February this year Orion was effectively cancelled by president Barack Obama's fiscal year 2011 (starting 1 October 2010) NASA budget and then on 15 April Obama declared that the Lockheed Martin developed spacecraft would be an escape capsule. But Obama's plan for NASA also envisages human missions beyond the Moon to asteroids and Mars
Now Bolden appears to have given back to Orion the mission it was to have originally, going beyond LEO
Bolden also indicated that he expected Orion to be able to begin operation as an escape capsule in three years, long before any commercial provider. He said he saw the likes of Space Exploration Technologies' (SpaceX) Dragon capsule as a longer term but cheaper prospect
This would seem to be a blow to the hopes of those companies planning to be a part of NASA's $6 billion commercial crew programme. In particular SpaceX which has stated it could deliver an ISS crew transport vehicle three years after being given the go-ahead
In today's Senate appropriations subcommittee hearing Bolden said that Orion would become a programme of incremental improvement to realise a spacecraft that can conduct missions beyond low Earth orbit (LEO)
On 1 February this year Orion was effectively cancelled by president Barack Obama's fiscal year 2011 (starting 1 October 2010) NASA budget and then on 15 April Obama declared that the Lockheed Martin developed spacecraft would be an escape capsule. But Obama's plan for NASA also envisages human missions beyond the Moon to asteroids and Mars
Now Bolden appears to have given back to Orion the mission it was to have originally, going beyond LEO
Bolden also indicated that he expected Orion to be able to begin operation as an escape capsule in three years, long before any commercial provider. He said he saw the likes of Space Exploration Technologies' (SpaceX) Dragon capsule as a longer term but cheaper prospect
This would seem to be a blow to the hopes of those companies planning to be a part of NASA's $6 billion commercial crew programme. In particular SpaceX which has stated it could deliver an ISS crew transport vehicle three years after being given the go-ahead
on April 22, 2010 5:37 PM | Reply
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then launched... with... ???
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on April 22, 2010 6:10 PM | Reply
Good point, what exactly. And please no one say Atlas V because I don't believe it can be upgraded in time. I think the Orion in three years is another case of a Bolden gaff
on April 22, 2010 6:58 PM | Reply
Atlas 5(or Delta 4, although Atlas is considered more cost effective).
It doesn't need to be upgraded. The Orion CRV is just another payload like a satellite. The lead time to launch is what ordering a rocket for your payload takes today. It will not need its full Tran Earth Injection propellant load, or the payload penalty of a Launch Abort System, so it's mass will likely fall within the payload capacity of the current operational Atlas line.
You could even launch a crew in it if you are willing to forgo the depth of an escape system in the event of failure, as soon as crew access is added to the Atlas 5 launch pad. It is as likely to reach orbit as any other payload launched by the Atlas 5, a rocket with a demonstrated reliability record.
With an online commercial crew capability, an exploration Orion launched unmanned could be manned in orbit by that in support of BEO manned exploration. The RS-68a upgraded Delta 4 Heavy offers improves payload capability if need be, and there is a Heavy version of the Atlas 5 that has been fully designed for the EELV program but has yet to be fielded.
Atlas 5 will likely be used in the commercial crew program, and modified with the addition of a health monitoring system to support launch escape systems, and the heavy variant of Atlas or a future evolved version(Atlas Phase 2) could loft a future manned Orion exploration capsule with an escape system.
on April 22, 2010 9:53 PM | Reply
Another 180 engines on the Falcon 9 aught to do it. Commercially funded by hot dog sales of course.
on April 22, 2010 10:39 PM | Reply
If Orion is going to be docked unmanned like Obama says it will be to the ISS then it can be launched on a Delta 4 heavy with no upgrades needed as they would not be necessary.It would be a good test of the system using an already operational launch vehicle carried out in a minimum time.
on April 23, 2010 5:21 PM | Reply
Hey Mr. Anonymous
Log on to Space x web site and check out the facility this guy has.
He has sold some serious hot dogs.
He can bulid his own lunar program at this facility it is a hugh asset to his arsenal. After he proves out his rockets he will have Oscer Mier by the bologna.
Look at the lift capability of the falcon 9 heavy and the weight of the Apollo lunar module ( as a bench mark).
Who is wining the space race now!
Hey Elon what are the chance of a mars or lunar Tesla rover?
on April 23, 2010 9:51 PM | Reply
Rob;
A few 'corrections' for you:
1) Orion wasn't "cancelled" Constellation was, Orion was specifically NOT included. (Otherwise the government CAN'T "buy" any since if WE "cancel" a vehicle development program we officially deny any and all claims to and therefore refuse to support in any way the development or operational deployment of said vehicle. You see this a lot in governemnt procurment :o)
2) Orion was "released-back-to-the-contractor" which basically gives up any and all further development say in the theory that the contractor will offer a model to the government at a lower cost than government procurment and development programs can meet.
3)LM already SAID that Orion, (Orion-Lite actually which is more than needed for ISS delivery and even for BLEO use) can be flown on the Atlas-V. It is currently the primary delivery vehicle for Bigelow until and unless something better comes along.
4) The Constellation-version-Orion was by LMs own words overweight and under-capability due to forced design changes to make it 'safe' to fly on the ARES-1. Without the "requirements" needed due to the enheirent dangers of the ARES-1 booster Orion suddenly becomes capable of being lifted on an EELV instead of requiring a "dedicated" new booster. I take it you never wondered "why" the Constellation-version-Orion's mass suddenly "ballooned" upwards from the block-1 (LEO-access) to the full up block-4 (Lunar/Mars) version before the required safety systems were even planned on being installed?
Being able to launch the Orion on EELVs was being suggested by Congress instead of development of the ARES-1. But the 5-segment ARES-1 was required to be developed for use on the ARES-V (though it turned out ARES-V needed at least a 5.5 segment booster if not a full-up 6 or more segment SRB) so Orion had to out-grow the EELVs. It was a descion directly from Griffen that pushed the Orion weight upwards and directed LM and Boeing from working on lighter weight versions of the basic Orion spacecraft.
(Both LM and Boeing were pushing for seperation of the Orion into seperate "modules" in a manner similar to the Soyuz as it lightened the entry module greatly and made a number of design challenges a lot easier)
Randy
on April 24, 2010 3:08 AM | Reply
They can test a bunch of systems. Auto docking is one that comes to mind.
You would not have to upgrade anything to launch it unmanned and you could by pass any up orbit human related ratings and costs.
They could also launch an unfueled EDS tank and new propulsion systems for testing refueling. Dock the orion to the fuel tank/propulsion system module and try either GEO, Earth Moon lagrange or lunar orbit.
on April 25, 2010 10:14 AM | Reply
So, there are four possible Orion missions:
- crew launch to LEO/ISS and ISS/LEO lifeboat - requires human rated launch vehicle
- ISS/LEO lifeboat (crew return vehicle) - launched as cargo, so current heavy Atlas V/Delta IV are enough
- Beyound LEO exploration vehicle - launched as cargo
- Beyound LEO exploration vehicle - launched with crew - requires human rated launch vehicle
In both Orion-as-cargo missions you have to launch the crew with ANOTHER capsule/shuttle/plane/etc. In the case of Beyound LEO exploration in 2015-2055 I can imagine Orion CEV launched as cargo to be docked with some LEO crew access Dragon/Soyuz/etc. - if economic, programmatic, etc. parameters are favorable to such configuration.
The problem is with the ISS lifeboat Orion-as-cargo mission before 2015 - the subject of the news report. What is the point of it? How would you launch the ISS crew in the first place? By Soyuz seats that NASA had already brought from Roscosmos (or will buy in the future)? If you already have crew members and Soyuz capsules at the ISS - then what is the use of ADDITIONAL lifeboat Orion? I can't imagine that duplicating this capability will be cheaper than just pay Roscosmos for both launch and return seats.
So, for Orion-launched-as-cargo to make sense there should be some way of launching crews to ISS without a lifeboat - like the Shuttle or some short duration crew launch capsule that is incapable of returning to Earth or incapable of long time ISS "waiting docked" periods. Any news for such one-way crew vehicle or short duration crew vehicle? And it should be ready in less than 3 years - the announced timeframe for Orion-as-cargo lifeboat. And it should have suitable human rated launch vehicle in 3 years.