A final word, from India, on ‘YouTube Terry’

I hope this is my last post on Col Terrence Fornof’s YouTube indiscretions. Much has been written throughout the blogosphere and the press since I posted the infamous video here a couple of weeks ago.

But I didn’t want to let it go without a firm rebuttal from the Indian side. The Indian Air Force has declined comment, but I can present a response by Vayu Aerospace Review Editor Pushpindar Singh.

He writes:

Being aware of the IAF’s views on the subject, and while fully respecting the IAF Vice Chief’s statement that the ‘leaked’ video and its content was ‘too demeaning for reaction’, I have decided to share the facts with readers, not those fancily conjured up by Colonel Terrence Fornof.

YouTube rebuttal:

Being aware of the IAF’s views on the subject, and while fully respecting the IAF Vice Chief’s statement that the ‘leaked’ video and its content was ‘too demeaning for reaction’, I have decided to share the facts with readers, not those fancily conjured up by Colonel Terrence Fornof, an F-15 fighter jockey and now Director of the Requirements and Testing Office at the USAF Air Warfare Centre at Nellis AFB. The USAF later issued a statement to say that Fornof’s was a private briefing to the ‘Daedalians’, a group of retired military pilots. “Colonel Fornof did not mean to offend any U.S. allied forces, as he knows firsthand the importance of training with allied forces and the awesome firepower they bring to the fight. His comments during this briefing were his personal opinions and not those of USAF Warfare Centre or of the Air Force”.

Still, to get the record straight, the facts are :

Ø The IAF did not undertake any IvIs at Nellis during Red Flag, nor did they engage thrust vectoring during the Exercise. IvIs were flown only at Mountain Home AFB. In none of the IvIs were the Su-30MKIs ever vulnerable, let alone shot down. As all exercises were flown with ACMI, the situations are recorded and available to substantiate this aspect. Additionally, the MKI’s behaviour with thrust vectoring is dramatically different from that described by the Colonel. F-15 and F-16 aircrew were well appreciative of IAF manoeuvres with thrust vectoring.

Ø Colonel Fornof’s statement on Su-30MKI rates of turn with thrust vectoring (20o/ sec) is grossly ‘out’ but apparently gives away actual F-22 performance (28o/sec) Pitch of the talk seemed as to whether thrust vectoring was important or not. As all sorties were with ACMI, entire profiles are recorded, can be analysed and surely would have been replayed to drive the point home and make the ‘chest thumping’ sound more real. Apparently this was not done. Perhaps, as the Colonel is aware of F-22 data, he has tried to down play the Su-30MKI in comparison. Surprisingly, while there was no systems / avionics / comparison between the two types or with any other type of ‘legacy’ aircraft, the speaker does admit that radar of the MKI is ‘superior’ to that of the F-15 and F-16, however ‘inferior’ to AESA of the F-22 (a correct assessment). However, the IAF used the Su-30′s radar in the training mode, with downgraded performance vis-à-vis operational mo! de, as they could hardly participate without this primary sensor

Ø The ‘Bison’ radar : the USAF should be aware that the ‘Bison’ does not have an Israeli radar, it is Russian. Nor does the Su-30MKI have Tumansky engines (but the NPO-Saturn). Surprisingly the Colonel seems oblivious of such facts, yet tries to convey that he is an authority on the matter.

Ø Fratricide by IAF fighters : this is correct, the IAF did ‘shoot down’ some ‘friendlies’ and that was assessed and attributed to the IAF not being networked. However, what the Colonel did not bring out were the two essential reasons for this. Firstly, this occurred mainly when the AWACS was not available (unserviceable) and controlling was done by GCI. More significantly it happened during extremely poor controlling by their operators, this fact being acknowledged during debriefs and the controllers being admonished accordingly. ‘Accents’ were perhaps the main culprit here, which very often led to American controllers not being able to understand Indian calls.

Ø Now hear this : the F-15C and other USAF fighters had the same number of fratricides as the IAF ! Considering they are well networked, yet their pilots shot down the same number of ‘friendlies’. This was not only a major concern but also turned out to be a major source of embarrassment as the USAF had everything — Link 16, IFF Mode 4 etc and the IAF had nothing. Under the Rules of Engagement, they did not even permit the IAF to use data link within themselves. All cases of USAF fratricide were covered in the next day’s mass briefing as lessons learnt by concerned aircrew. In the IAF, the incidents were covered by concerned controllers, and attributed to lack of adequate integration, excessive R/T congestion and poor controlling. Gloating on cases of IAF fratricide is frivolous and unprofessional.

Ø However, Colonel Fornof did appreciate IAF ‘professionalism’ and that the IAF were able to dovetail with USAF procedures within short time. There was not a single training rule / airspace violation. This is a most important aspect.

Ø Since the Colonel could hardly tell his audience that the IAF had given the USAF good run for their money, they downplayed the Su-30′s capability. It is correct that the IAF aircrew included some very young pilots — nearly 70 percent – but they adapted rapidly to the environment (totally alien), training rules (significantly different), airspace regulations etc but to say that they were unable to handle the Su-30 in its envelope (something that they have been practicing to do for four to five years) is just not credible ! If young pilots can adapt to new rules and environment within a short span of two weeks, it is because they are extremely comfortable and confident of their aircraft.

Ø The IAF’s all round performance was publicly acknowledged during, and at end of the Exercise, specifically by those involved. Not a single TR / airspace violation was acknowledged. Mission achievement rate was in excess of 90%. The drop out / mission success rates of all others, inclusive of USAF, were significantly lower. This is of major significance considering the fact that IAF was sustaining operations 20,000 km away from home base while the USAF were at home base. (The 8 Su-30s flew some 850 hrs during the deployment, which is equivalent to four months of flying task in India over 75 days). IAF’s performance at Mountain Home AFB was even better that that at Nellis AFB.

Ø FOD : At Mountain Home, IAF had reduced departure intervals from the very beginning (30″ seconds) considering that operating surfaces were very clean. However, a few minor nicks were encountered and it was decided to revert to 60 seconds rather than undertake engine changes. This was communicated by the IAF at the very start (IPC itself).

Ø There is no need to go in for ‘kill ratios’ as that would be demeaning. However, the IAF had significant edge throughout and retained it. In fact the true lesson for the USAF should be : ‘do not field low value legacy equipment against the Su-30MKI’ !.

(demeaning or otherwise, it is understood that the kill ratio (at Mountain Home AFB) was 21 : 1, in favour of the Su-30MKIs).

19 Responses to A final word, from India, on ‘YouTube Terry’

  1. irtusk 22 November, 2008 at 6:55 am #

    comment from Vishnu Som who was at Red Flag

    http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4361&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=40

    —————————————

    The IAF at Red Flag 2008: The True Story

    Hi … for all of you who are out there in the internet world and who have an interest in the performance of the Indian Air Force at Red Flag 2008 .. I have a few remarks. As the only Indian journalist who spent a lengthy period of time at Nellis after being granted permission by both the Indian Air Force and the US Air Force, I was granted access to impeccable sources in both forces. Whats more, I was able to independently corroborate this information with reliable, alternative sources.

    Several of the points I present here in the form of this post on the Bharat Rakshak forum will be compiled into an article which I will post on my company website ndtv.com. For those of you not familiar with the Indian media … New Delhi Television (NDTV) is India’s largest 24 hour news network and our website is one of the most viewed among news websites in the country. For the moment, I have decided not to do a television news report on this since I believe the contents of this post are too technical for a larger audience.

    For starters … and this cannot be stressed enough … the Red Flag exercises were a brilliant learning experience for all the participants, not least of all the Indian Air Force which, over a period of time, has earned the reputation of being one of the world’s finest operational air forces.

    This was a reputation which was reinforced at Red Flag 2008, the world’s most advanced air combat exercises where the Indian Air Force fielded a number of state of the art Sukhoi 30 MKI jets in addition to IL-76 transports and IL-78 mid air refuellers.

    For other participants at the Red Flag exercises … namely the South Korean Air Force, French and US Air Force … the opportunity to train with a platform such as the Sukhoi 30 MKI was an opportunity which just couldn’t be missed. This has a lot to do not just with the jet but also with the air force operating the fighter, a force which has made a mark as an innovative operator of fast jets.

    The US Air Force … the host of these exercises … was singularly gracious in its appreciation for the Indian Air Force contingent which came into Red Flag having trained extensively for the exercises not only back home but also at the Mountain Home Air Force base in the US.

    Contrary to unsolicited remarks by certain serving US personnel not directly linked to day to day operations at the exercises … the Indian Air Force and its Su-30s more than made a mark during their stint in the United States.

    For starters … not a single Sukhoi 30 MKI fighter was `shot down’ in close air combat missions at the Mountain Home air base. In fact, none of the Sukhois were even close to being shot down in the 10 odd one on one sorties which were planned for the first two days of the exercises at Mountain Home. These one on one engagements featured USAF jets such as the F-15 and F-16 in close air engagements against the Su-30 MKI. The majority of the kills claimed in these engagements were granted to the Indian Air Force with the remainder of these being no-results. Indian Air Force Sukhois did use their famed thrust vectoring in these one on one engagements. Contrary to what may have been reported elsewhere … the Su-30 has a rate of turn of more than 35 degrees when operating in the thrust vector mode. In certain circumstances, this goes up substantially.

    By the time the exercises at Mountain Home had matured … the Indian Air Force had graduated to large formation exercises which featured dozens of jets in the sky. In one of these exercises … the blue forces, of which the Indian Air Force was a part … shot down more than 21 of the enemy jets. Most of these `kills’ have been credited to the Indian Air Force.

    By the time the Indian Air Force was ready for Red Flag, the contingent had successfully worked up using the crawl, walk, run principle. At Red Flag though, they found themselves at a substantial disadvantage vis a vis the other participants since they were not networked with AWACS and other platforms in the same manner in which USAF or other participating jets were. In fact, Indian Air Force Sukhois were not even linked to one another using their Russian built data links since American authorities had asked for specifics of the system before it was cleared to operate in US airspace. The IAF, quite naturally, felt that this would compromise a classified system onboard and decided to go on with the missions without the use of data links between the Sukhois.

    Neither was the Indian Air Force allowed to use chaff or flares, essential decoys to escape incoming missiles which had been fired by enemy jets. This was because the US FAA had visibility and pollution related concerns in the event that these were used in what is dense, busy air space in the Las Vegas region.

    The Red Flag exercises themselves were based on large force engagements and did not see the Indian Air Force deploy thrust vectoring at all on any of the Sukhoi 30 jets not that this was required since the engagements were at long ranges.

    Though it is true that there were 4-5 incidents of fratricides involving the Indian Air Force at Red Flag … it is important to point out the following:

    In the debriefs that followed the exercises … responsibility for the fratricides were always put on the fighter controllers not the pilots. Its also important to point that unlike in Mountain Home, none of the Indian Air Force’s own fighter controllers were allowed to participate since there was classified equipment at Nellis used for monitoring the exercises. The lack of adequate controlling and the fact that Nellis fighter controllers often had problems understanding Indian accents (they had problems understanding French accents as well) resulted in a lack of adequate controlling in situations. Whats more … given the fact that the availability of AWACS was often low … the bulk of fratricides took place on days when the AWACS jet was not deployed. Whats important to remember though is that US participants in these exercises had a similar number of fratricides despite being fully linked in with data links and the latest IFF systems.

    So was the Indian Air Force invincible at Red Flag. In a word … no. So yes, there were certainly days in which several Sukhoi jets were shot down. And there were others when they shot down many opposing jets. Ultimately though … the success of the Indian Air Force at Red Flag lay in the fact that they could meet their mission objectives as well, if not better, than any other participant. Despite the hot weather conditions, the IAF had a 95 per cent mission launch ratio, far better than some of the participants.

    And no one went into the exercises thinking the score line would be a perfect one in favour of the IAF. In fact … the IAF went into these exercises with an open mind and with full admiration of the world beating range at Nellis with an unmatched system of calibrating engagement results.

    Perhaps the most encouraging part of these exercises comes from the fact that the Indian Air Force’s young pilots … learnt from their mistakes, analysed, appreciated and came back strong. Mistakes were not repeated. In fact … the missions where the IAF did not fare well turned out to be immense learning experiences.

    At the end of the exercises … its more than clear that the IAF’s Su-30s were more than a match for the variants of the jets participating at the Red Flag exercises. Considering the fact that the central sensor of the Sukhoi, its radar … held up just fine in training mode …despite the barrage of electronic jamming augurs well for the Indian Air Force.

    As for its young pilots … these are skills and experiences that they will take back to their squadrons … experiences which will be passed on to a whole new set of pilots who will come into the next set of exercises that much wiser.

    Vishnu Som
    Associate Editor and Senior Anchor
    NDTV

  2. Obamanite 23 November, 2008 at 1:56 am #

    Now really, we are supposed to trust a completely unverifiable account advanced by “Vayu Aerospace Review Editor Pushpindar Singh” with no direct knowledge or involvement in the matter at hand over that of a fighter pilot – a Colonel, no less – who was directly involved in the exercise in question? Give me a break! One is a “journalist” – not even, a “publisher” – who at best was fed his “facts” by an aggrieved party desperately trying to nurse a severely wounded ego, while the pilot – who didn’t even know he was being taped and had no reason to lie to an obviously educated and informed audience – was in fact candid and straightforward in admitting that once the Indians learn how to really fly and fight their Sukhois, they will be more than a match for teen-series fighters not equipped with AESA. At no point did the Colonel engage in anything approaching “chest-thumping”. His assessment seemed honest, clear and level-headed. In contrast, the “publisher’s” rebuttal is arrogant, self-aggrandizing and defensive (and quite likely delusional and more than mildly paranoid). It is the written equivalent of an Indian fighter pilot’s over-eager use of TVC, only to get his “brains drilled” by far less flashy but more effective maneuver, namely, the unvarnished relation of the facts by a no-nonsense fighter pilot.

    As an aside, and without wanting to ignite an international incident, as others observed in another thread, Indian folks are notoriously touchy when it comes to accepting criticism, and, those who belong to the higher castes – to which no doubt Indian fighter pilots, defense establishment members and “publishers” belong – are notoriously and abhorrently arrogant and haughty, thanks to their inbred sense of entitlement. I should know – I worked as editorial assistant in an academic journal led by an almost comically disagreeable Indian professor. Many of the submitted papers for peer review hailed from India, and when I had to send rejection notices out to Indian research teams, the responses were in many cases not fit to print (“What do you mean we have not successfully demonstrated cold fusion, you miserable ba$tard!”).

    In conclusion, the “publisher’s” rebuttal should be regarded as entirely lacking in demonstrable credibility. Perhaps I should ask: as an experienced journalist (which I happen to be, although in an unrelated field) whom would you trust more, Mr. Trimble? The answer seems pretty clear to me.

  3. John 24 November, 2008 at 8:11 pm #

    @ Obamanite,

    OMG, is the basis of your argument SERIOUSLY ‘well, since India has Hindus, Indian Air Force pilots must be high caste, you see, therefore obviously inbred, arrogant, blah blah

    ???

    What a load of (full on racist) whiny, whingy ad hominem crap, especially from someone ranting on adn on about unsubstantiated claims and Indian touchiness. You do that Obama moniker and the rest of us Americans a helluva disservice bro.

    Before you accuse me of being some high caste racist (ha), I ain’t Indian and I aint Hindu. But I do have a the barest knowledge of the world around me and I’m not a arrogantly sputtering ignorant whose irrational comments belie his own bruised ego.

    Now, that being said, I do tend to believe the Col.’s assessment (even if some of his facts were off, the thrust of his argument I mean) because he is a Col and is in the USAF, over the secondhand words of a journalist, however reputed he may be. Now if the IAF pilots go on record or ACMI tapes get released, that’s another story.

    I think this whole freakin episode has been taken WAY THE HELL out of proportion, first by ubernationalistic American cyber-jingos thinking that American invincibility is something given, and not something made (aka more F-22s!), and by Indian cyber-jingos taking some fighter jock’s off record comments way too personal like. (I’ve known enough of them in my day. They’re blowhards. All of them. Just like the IAF ones from that email. Deal with it.)

    Despite all the flag waving and chest thumping, I think it makes sense that the Su-30MKI is a potent beast, probably better than many of our current legacy fighters, and that the IAF guys are a pretty competant, professional bunch on par with the best.

    All this really means, and what I think what Col. Fornof was getting at, was that we need the F-22 (maybe in bigger numbers) lest non-friendly countries eventually develop aircraft as potent as the Indians. And from India’s perspective, the MKI smokes any other aircraft in their threat perception (China and Paki, this means you!) Everything else is bruised egos by internet fanboys. You two included.

    So all in all, good exercises. Lessons learned. Ok. End of story. Now lets all just move the ^#$@ on to real news and more important things already.

    -JJ

  4. Obamanite 26 November, 2008 at 12:04 am #

    My comments regarding India’s caste system should not be interpreted to imply that I am “biased” against Indians, any more than I am “biased” against, say, certain American voters who have rolled back civil rights gains made by the gay community through the approval of prejudiced, backward propositions in Florida and California. To say that I am “racist” for finding India’s appalling, racist caste system reprehensible is rather illogical, in the same way I found South Africa’s Apartheid appalling. Anyone who would defend India’s caste system is an apologist of a system that is different from Nazism in degree but not in kind. If that makes me “ignorant” or “intolerant” of other cultures so be it, and proudly so. I do not choose to tolerate systematic intolerance, prejudice and racism. Awful person I am, I know…

    As John points out above, until such time as actual ACMI tapes materialize to rebut Col. Fornof’s first-hand account, or pilots themselves who were involved in the exercises in question, second-hand rants made (up) by aggrieved Indian journalists are simply not credible. In a court of law, such childish tantrums would be utterly insufficient – and would amount to no more than hearsay – to successfully impugn the colonel’s credibility. Simple as that.

  5. CallCenter 26 November, 2008 at 7:35 am #

    Obamanite,

    You have no idea what you have just gotten yourself into by posting what you did. Now there is this huge population of internet warriors who have internet connection and phone access thanks to numerous US companies who has outsourced their online support to call centers in India. Now armed with these facilities and western names like “John”, “George”, “Harry” , “Nick” etc they indulge in such antics. As soon as you point out something wrong and you will have a whole mob of “Johns” and “Georges” posting over time all sorts of nationalistic and convulated logic to prove how everything good after sliced bread has originated from India and is beyond critque.

    Trust me you have hit a raw nerve by pointing out that caste system. The level of intolerance towards minorties in Indian society is nothing new and is well documented. Just look up the scores of recent attacks against christians.

  6. Junod 10 December, 2008 at 5:13 pm #

    My comments regarding India’s caste system should not be interpreted to imply that I am “biased” against Indians, any more than I am “biased” against, say, certain American voters who have rolled back civil rights gains made by the gay community through the approval of prejudiced, backward propositions in Florida and California. To say that I am “racist” for finding India’s appalling, racist caste system reprehensible is rather illogical, in the same way I found South Africa’s Apartheid appalling. Anyone who would defend India’s caste system is an apologist of a system that is different from Nazism in degree but not in kind. If that makes me “ignorant” or “intolerant” of other cultures so be it, and proudly so. I do not choose to tolerate systematic intolerance, prejudice and racism. Awful person I am, I know…

    As John points out above, until such time as actual ACMI tapes materialize to rebut Col. Fornof’s first-hand account, or pilots themselves who were involved in the exercises in question, second-hand rants made (up) by aggrieved Indian journalists are simply not credible. In a court of law, such childish tantrums would be utterly insufficient – and would amount to no more than hearsay – to successfully impugn the colonel’s credibility. Simple as that.

    I cannot begin to laugh enough at Obamanite here – the definition of sore loser personified.

    So, the IAF outperforms the USAF at Red Flag, and so its the caste system – anyone saying different is a Nazi- heard of Godwin’s law, genius?

    India’s caste system is no more “appalling” than the institutionalised discrimination against African Americans and hispanics in the United States, and in fact less so. While the US is patting itself on the back for electing one Obama – who had to repeatedly stand up and count himself as a christian – and had to play down the middle name Hussein, India has had presidents and leaders of multiple communities.

    And racist? Give us a break- Indians belong to the same race.

    In effect, Obamanite you reflect the quintessential ugly american. You take a hard fought but fair debate about aviation, on this most excellent blog, and turn it to caste – if Indians were to behave as disgracefully as you have, they would bring up Abu Ghraib, the evangelical hate campaign against non christians and the fringe filth that can exist in any diverse country. But they didnt.

    None so far brought in religion and caste into the discussion about military aviation. But you did.

    It actually goes a long way in showing- and I am sure many Americans would be cringing at the attitudes displayed by you and “call center”, about your ingrained bigotry that does not even allow you to debate gracefully and topically, but bring in irrelevant sidetracks.

    In fact, I do rather hope the JASDF dont defeat the US at Nellis – if they did, you would be the first to start : “I dont mean to flame, and I dont dislike Japanese people but they are all descended from war criminals”
    Or if it was the RAAF:

    “I have no bias against the Australians but arent they all convict descended and arent they anti aboriginal Nazis”?

    That is the real shame here.

    For all your bluster and bravura, you cant stand being licked in a fair fight. Which is why you’ll never be equivalent to the real warriors, whether Indian or American.

    If you knew anything about Red Flag, you would know this – the Indians who participated got a special call out at the end of the exercise from the Nellis evaluators, and were called to the stage for exceptional performance. The IAF holds that, from its peers, in high regard- their fellow professionals account matters. They really dont care for what Terence Fornof – or for that matter, you, say.

    You can call them names, insult their nation, their heritage, their faith, their belief – but you cannot take away their competence. Spit at the sky, and you soak yourself.

    Do think about it.

  7. Junod 10 December, 2008 at 5:28 pm #

    One more thing – Obamanite believes that the IAF crew which gave the USAF the workover at Nellis and Mountain Home was a high caste group – Boston brahmins relocated to India perhaps. May I disabuse him of that notion. They were an exceptional group of people, representing the wide variety of diversity in India, in terms of both caste and creed, and included Christians – proud Indian christians. Do reflect on that “gentlemen”. Second, I would invite you to come to India and mention to any IAF “air warrior” about he/she being a low caste or what not – more likely than not, they would laugh at your bigoted ignorance, but even then – you may learn about what makes India. My nation has been defended by people from all walks of life, caste and creed no bar. And the IAF chooses people on competence and competence alone. Our present chief is a Parsi, the second in command is a Hindu. The Marshal of the AF is a Sikh. We are proud of our nations servicemen and women, irrespective of where they come from. Perhaps in the world that you inhabit, you look to see whether a USAF crewmember is a Christian believer, or a pagan heathen, or a Muslim. We in India dont think on the same lines as you do.

    And I would suggest that if you do, one day, appreciate the sacrifice those in uniform make for your freedom, you begin looking at their actions and not their skin color, or their religion or their ethnicity. It would be the least that you could do.

    Lastly – India is a nation and an ancient civilization. We have seen the rise and fall of history and we are claiming our place back in the sun on the dint of our peoples efforts. We appreciate the people of the United States, but we brook no condescension or bigotry. We are not your pets to take sweeping generalizations lying down. You want to work with us, we would be there, but attitudes like yours and “call centers” have no place in our hearts. Grow up, gentlemen and learn to act your place. Your nation deserves better than what you have shown yourself to be.

  8. Junod 10 December, 2008 at 5:34 pm #

    Call center writes:

    Obamanite,

    You have no idea what you have just gotten yourself into by posting what you did. Now there is this huge population of internet warriors who have internet connection and phone access thanks to numerous US companies who has outsourced their online support to call centers in India. Now armed with these facilities and western names like “John”, “George”, “Harry” , “Nick” etc they indulge in such antics. As soon as you point out something wrong and you will have a whole mob of “Johns” and “Georges” posting over time all sorts of nationalistic and convulated logic to prove how everything good after sliced bread has originated from India and is beyond critque.

    Trust me you have hit a raw nerve by pointing out that caste system. The level of intolerance towards minorties in Indian society is nothing new and is well documented. Just look up the scores of recent attacks against christians.

    ————–

    Dear man, whoever you are – those names exist because those people are Indian christians, and they honor their christian heritage by choosing those names.

    I am sure this is a strange concept for you in Pakistan, but even so- do persevere.

    Lastly – nothing wrong in working in a call center, it is a far sight better than massacring innocents in hotels, in the name of religion. Or running tanks over them, when they protest.

    Would rather more people worked in call centers, than act like the above.

  9. Hmm 29 December, 2008 at 6:43 pm #

    Seems like the colonel took a leaf out of goebbels

  10. Air_one 8 March, 2009 at 5:40 pm #

    Whatever the facts…the conduct of Col. was unprofessional. I would excuse him only if somebody tells me it was a closed door in-house chest thumping and was caught on cam secretly. The mission was sophisticated, objectives were crucial for learning and approach friendly between the nations. I do hope this does not undermine such exercises as a whole.
    All other unconnected talk above are, as the IAF said, ‘too demeaning for reaction’.
    Let us all rise above it. India and US are both great in their own ways, and both have their shortcomings. Objective is to be better with every passing day. With you, without you, inspite of you. With you will be great !

  11. Albertine Coomber 16 March, 2010 at 6:12 pm #

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  12. Kalimirch 16 June, 2010 at 6:02 pm #

    Have you heard of the Chinese hacker army? Or the North Korean ones? There is a similar army of online activists whose job is to lurk on public forums on the global Internet and run down Hinduism with rants and rhetoric. It is populated by people with evangelical and missionary zeal and leftist-marxists like obamanite and callcentre etc. There will typically be a primary rant diffuser and a sidekick playing a supporting role who appears to another unrelated but “well informed” and “concerned” global citizen who will concur with supporting views. Their primary defensive-aggressive strategy to evade genuine intellectual debate and face any opposition is pronounce any dissenting voice as guilty even before they launch into an assault. Like ” Anybody who defends caste is an apologist for a Nazi like regime”.

    Yawn! These guys are so predictable with little or no intellectual contributions to understanding the topics they vent on – they are beginning to bore me.

  13. Edward K. 7 July, 2011 at 6:10 am #

    I was wondering why someone would post an bragging video on youtube? I mean why an USAF pilot will need to justify itself. USAF is the most powerful airforce in world. But then I read this

    “It is understood that the kill ratio (at Mountain Home AFB) was 21 : 1, in favour of the Su-30MKIs.”

    and I understand now that was just Col. Fornof’s rage. Dont feel bad Col. as USAF boasts new toys like F-35 and F-22. As a matter of fact we must feel pride that our friends are learning and evolving. This is precisely our aim for conducting these exercises.

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