PHOTO: Rafale defeats F-22?



My favorite French magazine Air & Cosmos published last week a photo obtained from the French Air Force showing a Lockheed Martin F-22 in the target sights of a Dassault Rafale. The apparent intercept took place during the exercises at Al Dhafra AB, UAE, in November and December, Air & Cosmos’ Guillaume Steuer reports.

In late December, the French Ministry of Defense boasted one kill in six engagements versus the F-22 in aerial combat. In turn, US Air Force F-22 pilots, however, told the media that their aircraft was undefeated during the exercise.

It’s impossible to make any sensible judgments from a single photo of an alleged air-to-air engagement, but this is certainly a significant image to appear in the history of both fighter programs.

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67 Responses to PHOTO: Rafale defeats F-22?

  1. Moose 23 June, 2010 at 6:12 pm #

    Looks pretty straight and level to be engaged in ACM. Think someone might have taken this while flying in formation and used it for a little bit of a tall tale.

  2. Aaron R. 23 June, 2010 at 7:23 pm #

    Photoshop couldn’t have created this… There’s no possible way…

  3. Urban 23 June, 2010 at 8:02 pm #

    “Locks on to” rather than defeats, which is not enough in itself. But a lock on like this, assuming also a laser range finder, can tell you if you’re in missile launch envelope or not and in a dogfight can give you useful information like putting your target’s speed next to your on the HUD tape and so on. Which some other fighters will need their radars to do and thus presumably can’t against a F-22 — so this isn’t really about Rafale vs F-22 but rather Rafale vs the “other” competition.

  4. Robert 23 June, 2010 at 8:13 pm #

    Even if it’s not true, HMD & AIM9X for Raptor, please.

    F16C, EA18G, T38 and [now potentially] Rafale….

    The list is getting a bit long.

    Whether they be cheap shots or not, it’s a head’s up for F22 operators, IMO.

  5. Dude 23 June, 2010 at 8:20 pm #

    What does the caption say?….

  6. RunningBear 23 June, 2010 at 8:38 pm #

    It is accepted that any plane can be beat if the pilot is inexperienced and does not know his plane. That being said, taking pictures of a “kill” without ROE is “just” taking pictures. By the way, my dog is meaner than your dog, yawn!

  7. Fishbed A 23 June, 2010 at 9:02 pm #

    Well, that’s it folks :-(
    F-22 is toast, obsolete, it’s official.

  8. aeroxavier 23 June, 2010 at 9:29 pm #

    i don’t have doubt for the possible act bu not the photo
    and one mirage 2000 have take the f-22 in the line of fire

    and yes the f-22 was not exceptionnal plane he was make for air supremacy by stealth “design”.
    all radars evolued, and rafale use similar or better techno but don’t have one stealth “design”

  9. aeroxavier 23 June, 2010 at 9:33 pm #

    stephen you have take this photo?
    i read “ces photos” , some others?

  10. RobH 23 June, 2010 at 9:45 pm #

    Does anyone realize that ‘gullible’ is not in the dictionary?

  11. alloycowboy 23 June, 2010 at 9:56 pm #

    Well it’s like when I was playing sports with the other kids on my block. If you don’t let them win occasionally they won’t want to play with you any more. So I think it’s the same with F-22. They F-22′s have to give there opponent an occasional victory or else their oponents won’t play anymore.

  12. BDF 23 June, 2010 at 10:03 pm #

    Sigh. Another meaningless controversy over something most people know nothing about. DACT is not some sort of mindless deathmatch, its >>training<< and without knowing the ROEs for the exercise speculation is utterly pointless. Hell that first picture could have been from join-ups while transiting to and from the exercise area. Certainly there are plenty of pictures of the two jets in formation. It's amusing that the French have been the most vocal here; it reminds one of the old saying "those who speak the loudest…."

  13. EG 23 June, 2010 at 10:20 pm #

    Well,
    If true, the F-22 bubbas bet start working on some better DACT tactics or figure out how to fight their airplane. Maybe it’s time to watch the training movie “Johnny Got a Zero”.

    If false, nothing better than misplaced confidence in a mount, like the F2A at Midway.

  14. Grunty 23 June, 2010 at 10:21 pm #

    It says something along the line that the Rafale’s OSF shows that the stealthy F-22A is not invisible, noting that the radar found it more difficult.

  15. Bob 23 June, 2010 at 10:34 pm #

    It says that although the Raptor is hard to get on radar, it’s harder for it to escape the Rafale’s TV FSO detector.

  16. Dave 23 June, 2010 at 10:39 pm #

    It always strike me as grossly unprofessional when people brag about how awesome they are- like in this case. Usually, it stems from a giant inferiority complex. From the photo you’ll note that the Raptor has it’s radar reflector attached to it’s belly. Besides, in another publication, the French commander says that the F-22s never removed those devices during their training with them and wasn’t nearly as douchy as leadership seems to be.

  17. Mia92 23 June, 2010 at 10:58 pm #

    The article is in fact quite elogious for the Raptor. Translation of excerpt:
    The U.S. Air Force, however, put strict conditions surrounding the confrontation: the Raptor will not participate in any BVR exercise with foreign aircraft. The American pilots only accept to confront in dogfight, 1 vs 1, against crews that participate in the exercise. Pilots of the 1/7 take their chance … and the results will be rather promising: on 6 engagements, only one has resulted, according to the French aviators, with a straightforward victory for the F-22A. The other 5 have ended with a ‘draw’ ,a situation of equality that can be obtained by various parameters: Dual protracted beyond a preset time,crossing of the floor set for the exercice …
    2 main parameters give the advantage to the Raptor in dogfight: the thrust vector and the enormous power conferred by its 2 reactors, which give each twice the thrust of the M88! Although it is much heavier than the Rafale, the F22A maintains a formidable manceuvrability that allows it to leave the most delicate BFM situations; even if it loses a lot of energy during maneuvers with the highest angle of attack, this energy can be quickly recovered by its engines.
    But the french pilots are careful to qualify the Raptor as invulnerable: “Facing an F-22A, the Rafale can be put in firing position but it must do it very quickly, lest the roles reversed if the battle drags on” summarizes a French aviator.

  18. sferrin 23 June, 2010 at 11:05 pm #

    As another pointed out, looks pretty level/in a lazy, slow turn, for being in “combat”.

  19. Dave Collins 23 June, 2010 at 11:11 pm #

    Sigh.

    French air force has a long history of releasing completely irrelevant and childish images from their jets. It’s for the home audience who they need to defend a ultra-expensive protectionist fighter industry.

  20. Scorpion82 23 June, 2010 at 11:21 pm #

    This image tells you nothing, apart from the OSF is capable to track an F-22. Big deal at the supposedly short range, there is also another shot from an OSF recording showing vortices over the wings of the F-22 approaching the Rafale. It was likely taken during one of the 6 engagements and as they were supposed to be guns only those shots tell you nothing at all.

  21. Robert 23 June, 2010 at 11:48 pm #

    Thanks for the context and translation, Mia92.

    “6 draws and 1 lock-on in 7 1-vs-1 WVR dogfight”

    Not bad for the Rafale and the 1/7 pilot.

    Eventually, it probably came down to maneuvering and human (F22) vs. automatic (Rafale’s OSF) visual tracking.

  22. dude 24 June, 2010 at 12:21 am #

    Dan,

    Thanks for proving the link to the entire article.

    It helps to interpret it in context, than out of context.

  23. Frederic 24 June, 2010 at 11:26 am #

    This picture from a F22 was taken by the Optronique Secteur Frontal (optronic nose device) of the Rafale while a dogfight, but it does not mean the rafale was in position to “shoot” or anything.

    I really liked the describing of a simulated engagement Rafale-Typhoon in Corsica during when the Rafale shot down 9 Eurofighter for only one loss…

  24. Aussie Digger 24 June, 2010 at 3:19 pm #

    Bah. The ONLY thing Rafale is better than the F-22 at, is export sales.

    Oh, wait…
    :)

  25. EG 24 June, 2010 at 4:57 pm #

    BTW,
    Why does anybody expect any aircraft to be invincible at all times? All it takes is a moment of inattention by the pilot and especially today, an error in switchology.
    If these are indeed “true kills”, made IAW the DACT rules for that particular engagement, congratulations to the winning pilots.

    Personally, if I had an aircraft that was that good all the time, I would not be publically advertising my capabilities, but would brief my potential export customers after they signed an NDA.

    The lack of export sales may be an indication there may be issues with the Rafale that trump its ability to kill Raptors.

  26. aeroxavier 24 June, 2010 at 5:27 pm #

    don’t forget one things, this exercice was the first international exercice who the f-22 train with foreign aircraft.
    in U.A.E. , rafale was in one good position, koweit and others in the gulf to be sale.
    USA will find buyers of f-35.
    rafale was better than f-35 and was ready, he just don’t have stealth design but can make more that f-35

    one more time, rafale is the black beast of USA in aircraft military.
    everywhere when you have the rafale in one competition, you see american who sell f-15 , old f-16..
    see in brazil, one aircraft carrier, hillary clinton, defense pact just when the rafale was in the line for the first contract.

    the rafale was what the american would make with the f-35, but rafale was better and when he start export sale he can be very very the black beast to american industry.
    and for the moment, what is the promotion for the f-35? stealth and? 5th gen because he was furtiv.
    you can every time imagine this plane can’t be shoot because some people say that, or 5 was superior to 4 and normally better.
    new radars, new weapons was made

    one rafale f-4 was going to be developped by UAE fund
    Better stealth and engine, new radar…

  27. Dude 24 June, 2010 at 5:50 pm #

    It hurts to see our fancy little (correction: hugely expensive) Raptor on crosshair, doesn’t it?

    Well, i’m glad: at least it’s a friendly crosshair rather a hostile one in kill-or-be-killed encounter. For friendly engagement like this we can reasonably expect similar level of piloting skill (from operational squadron – not pilots like Yeager or Tom Cruise) from both sides. It’s futile to dismiss the French pilot or jet over something irrelevant like sale record or prospect, don’t you think?

    Perhaps the point comes down to: is FLIR (whether it be OSF or PIRATE or what have you) and gizmos like HMD and high-agility IR missiles relevant in future visual range engagement?

  28. Fishbed A 24 June, 2010 at 6:37 pm #

    Nevertheless, it still stands that f-22 is toast. And everything else. We’ve seen it in the photos, so it’s true. Period.

  29. EG 24 June, 2010 at 6:54 pm #

    Hey dude,
    “It’s futile to dismiss the French pilot or jet over something irrelevant like sale record or prospect, don’t you think?”

    Not really, the best jet in the world can’t do much if it is not purchased and deployed.

    And I hope that I have not sounded dismissive of the opposing pilots. That was certainly never intended.

    Why hasn’t the Rafale sold? (Honest question.)

  30. Dan 24 June, 2010 at 7:49 pm #

    yes it’s futile , only naive people believe that the biggest fighter competitions are won because a aircraft could be “better” than another one…
    The truth is these competitions are won (or lost) mainly because of geopoliticals factors and politicals pressures.
    So, about the Rafale, Dassault does receive a strong political support only since Sarkozy took office and i guess here is the main reason which explains why the Rafale is now close to win several export orders in UAE, Brazil or Switzerland …

  31. Dude 24 June, 2010 at 8:24 pm #

    ‘Better’ jet = better sale?

    In reality, no. [See comments below.]

  32. sferrin 24 June, 2010 at 11:06 pm #

    Yo Dude: Looking at that picture, you honestly believe that F-22 is in the midst of hard manuevering? Looks to me like it’s just a lazy turn back to base and a Rafale took the opportunity to claim a “kill”. Wouldn’t surprise me at all if they were flying in formation and the Rafale simply pointed it’s IRST at it and snapped a picture. (Or did you not notice that they’re a split-second from collision were that taken from the forward direction?) But then that qualifies as a “kill” in some circles and based on a few of the posts here, it’s certainly convinced the home crowd.

  33. Dave 24 June, 2010 at 11:07 pm #

    2 years ago the Luftwaffe Typhoon took on Rafale in air combat, neither side went into details but the Luftwaffe colonel in charge did say he was glad of the extra thrust available in Typhoon which gave an early clue to the Rafale dogfight capability.
    As recent reports suggest Rafale is a very good dogfighter especially at medium level, 15000-20000ft and has very effective electro optical systems. These dogfights typically start either from very short range head on or as two formations flying side by side, they they turn 180 degrees away from each other util they are just about to lose visual contact then they turn in and calls ‘fights on’.
    Typhoon is designed for high level combat, with supercruise enabling it to launch BVR missiles at a greater range due to its height (50k+)and speed.
    As we are allies the 2 aircraft compliment each other very well.
    As for Raptor there is no doubt that it is the ultimate fighter and every fighter jock wants to go against it. Interesting though that Raptor is not allowed to go BVR against non american aircraft, I wonder why, secrets or fear that it may be vulnerable in some way to particular aircraft weapons systems or missiles.
    Anyway I for one am glad the French have a good fighter, interesting though why its taking so long to export it. Too expensive? Too short range? American leverage on countries that are interested, Whatever the UAE only seem to be prepared to buy it if it get an engine, radar and electronics upgrade.

  34. dan 24 June, 2010 at 11:34 pm #

    “The Armée de l’ Air has been able to experience this superiority in dogfight in September 2009, during an exercise organized by the French and British headquarters, in a deployment on the Solenzara airbase in Corsica .
    Few days , the EC-1/7 stands next with the Royal Air Force transformation squadron on typhoons. The English have thought of everything, and introduce to the French pilots the simulated engagement patterns they wish to practice facing the Rafale. The French pilots push back a smile: the conditions of the exercice are, on paper, custom-made for the Typhoons , they plan within visual range fights , 1 vs 1, under 20,000 ft and at 350 knots. Whatever. The ‘Provence’ squadron takes up the gauntlet … The 2 planes take off, then meet up at 18 000 ft to start the exercise. The aircraft are flying on the same trajectory with about 2 km of lateral separation. “Turn Away” with this announcement, the pilots turn 45 ° outward, to move away from each other. A few seconds later, the “turn in” and the planes turn toward each other to meet face-to-face in the sky. Once both aircraft is within visual range , its the ultimate ad: “Fight’s on!”. The first skirmish is indisputable. It need less than 40 seconds and only 3 crossing for the Rafale pilot to have its gun in firing position. However, the pilots flying the two planes are far from beginners. While the English is considered a Typhoon specialist in air-to-air, the “Provence” pilot has also a solid experience in within visual range combat.

    Nine wins, one defeat

    This initial result is not a fluke: the two next passes end also to the advantage of the Rafale. In total, 4 different engagements will take place in Corsica, for a total of 9 wins against 1 defeat for the french fighter.”

    http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?137433-Rafale-News&p=5016394&viewfull=1#post5016394

  35. Dave 25 June, 2010 at 12:35 am #

    Impostor! Anyways, I always find it curious with these chest thumping pissing contests that nobody mentions that one side is playing Red Air i.e. replicating a bandit. We don’t do Blue Force vs. Blue Force. If you take the PR douchebags out of the equation, the French pilots involved admitted the Typhoons were playing the bad guys- maybe not in this mag, but I definitely saw that in another pub… Point is, nobody is going mano a mano here, and certainly nobody is going to tip their hand by bring their A-game in an international meeting so that their TTPs can be compromised.

  36. Saberhagen 25 June, 2010 at 11:14 am #

    Big yawn my folks. Even a trainer plane (T-38) had F-22 on its sight, and that pic is much more lively. So what a big deal? Pathetic French is so desperate with their Rafale that every bit of nonsense marketing trick helps. What else do you expect? How long have they been trying to export it?

  37. Someone 25 June, 2010 at 11:18 am #

    hahahahahaha, this is the most ridiculous shi* i’ve ever seen in my life, a rafale!! haha i mean come on it can’t even keep up with a CW-21 Demon, rafale, haha god damn.

  38. Dude 25 June, 2010 at 2:05 pm #

    Yo Sferrin,

    You don’t happen to only know how to read a picture without reading the words [context], do you?

    As for the picture, there is a saying that ‘most pilots that get shot down in combat never know what hit them.’ Perhaps that was the case; perhaps that was not. Again, context, Sferrin.

  39. Fabrice 25 June, 2010 at 7:23 pm #

    Stephen, what a stupid, disingenuous article. You clearly just wanted to get more hits on your blog, and baiting all the Rafale haters is a great way to do that.

    LISTEN UP FOLKS:
    - At no time did the French claim that this was a F-22 kill. Not the French air force, nor the French magazine.

    - Why? Because this is just an image from OSF’s TV sensor, not HUD footage. In a combat setting this might have been a missile kill, but since the F-22 and Rafale only did gun engagements, this was taken outside of a combat setting.

    - Both the F-22 and Rafale must have tested their passive tracking systems (such as in this photo), but that’s not enough for either side to claim a missile kill because neither side knows what the other side was seeing or not seeing at the same point in time. (Apparently an F-22 pilot made a claim about an AMRAAM kill on a Rafale – now THAT’s unprofessional!)

    BOTTOM LINE
    You guys are bickering over outlandish claims that have never been made!!! Or rather, those claims have been made up by non-French sources (like this blog) that ought to know better. The French claims have been a lot more limited and consistent than people here seem to realize.

  40. aeroxavier 25 June, 2010 at 7:40 pm #

    rafale was operationnal in the same time with eurofighter.
    he was operationnal in french air force in the end of 2004.
    he lose 3 contract (not all weeks one country buy airplane), and everytime that was controversial sale, morocco when USA give old f-16 for nothing, south korea whos the rafale is considerer the better but USA influence have give the contract to f-15.

    today he was good placing in many contract who was start in some years.
    UAE,brasil,switzerland,india,koweit,oman,greece.
    he was in the table of country who don’t have take it like south korea and saudia.
    f-35 probs can help the rafale to find new buyers
    netherland,GB…

    rafale was french, and for this reason many people says: he don’t was better because he don’t was american

    just see what american makes for counter one rafale sale in export. when you see that, you can imagine the reason…
    USA don’t make that with all foreign country , but just with the rafale, this is for that i mean this plane was not like one f-18 but like one f-35 with better caracteristics but own stealth

  41. Fishbed A 26 June, 2010 at 5:09 pm #

    Very enlightning words from the Daves there. Much appreciated :-)

  42. Dave 27 June, 2010 at 12:05 pm #

    To the other Dave,
    Dear me you are getting hysterical about air combat EXERCISES, you know……practice…is what makes perfect.
    One small point, when fighters meet for Within Visual Range Air Combat Manoeuvring it is not Blue v Red, it’s 1 v 1, 2 v 2 or 4 v 4, it is training, learning how to fly and fight your jet in a realistic environment…safely

  43. Isadora Grageda 27 June, 2010 at 10:12 pm #

    What is the meaning of the previous comment? I think it is important.

  44. Fishbed A 27 June, 2010 at 11:34 pm #

    I thought that both the Daves sounded very level headed, as if they were actually involved in flying these machines, compared to the way everyone else was carrying on.

    But it appears that now one Dave has issues with the other :-o

  45. Dave 28 June, 2010 at 5:03 pm #

    Who’s hysterical? Further, that’s not really true, even ACM is conducted with one side playing Red Air. While it’s true in many cases that both sides will fly to the best of their ability in WVR, there are restrictions in place for Red Air pilots in order to try to simulate a bandit. Further, an IP playing Red Air is not going to beat the living tar out a student just because… his job is to fly hard enough to teach, not to humiliate some brand new wingman just out of the FTU or FRS (at least not in the US services). Also, take the F-22 guys, they’ll never do Raptor vs full up Raptor. One of their guys (WIC IP) told me it was flat out too dangerous in their case. Apparently, the airspeeds and AOA would rapidly deteriorate into the unsafe areas of the envelope i.e extremely low airspeeds and extremely high AOAs.

  46. Saberhagen 28 June, 2010 at 5:34 pm #

    “rafale was operationnal in the same time with eurofighter.”

    And EF still managed to find customers though. You can have all the excuses in this world, but the fact remains: Rafale is the only western fighter that cant find a foreign customer. Oh, and by the way, its not the 1st fighter made by French. So please stop nonsense like ‘nobody likes it just because its from France’. That’s pathetic. France is always in the top weapon exporter in the world. So dont play the victim game here.

  47. Jetcal1 28 June, 2010 at 7:05 pm #

    Sh,
    “……So please stop nonsense like ‘nobody likes it just because its from France’…..”

    Be nice, integrity has not place when confronting jingoistic rants. With some people It will always be the fault of someone or something else.

    Remember, Marcel Bloch also had problems at one time.

  48. tactical flashlight 1 July, 2010 at 8:54 pm #

    What’s up? Is there a way I can get email updates on this post?

  49. Dare2 2 July, 2010 at 11:17 am #

    Here we go again:

    The usual rempant Rafale bashing based on the “It doesn’t sell” thing.

    If aircraft capabilties were based on this, F-22 would be bottom of the list.

    For everyone’s info, OSF TV channel have its own tracking caspabilties as demonstrated during its first flight-tests and is capable of target designation as well.
    http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/1999/06/09/51953/seeker-gets-on-track.html

    The next generation for this device should improve significantly on range and weather independency, so F-22 or not, the detection, tracking, targeting and kill capabilties of VLO target already exists.

    Rafale bashers please get your fact right…

    Quote:
    Eurofighter is working on software fixes to address performance shortfalls with the infrared search-and-track system and some radar modes. Credit: EUROFIGHTER
    http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_channel.jsp?channel=defense&id=news/EURO121509.xml&headline=Decision

  50. Dare2 2 July, 2010 at 11:44 am #

    OSF Camera channel have only a max PoV of 60* in the frontal sector.

    It is fully capable of detecting, tracking and designating targets on its own.
    http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/1999/06/09/51953/seeker-gets-on-track.html

    So this is not a “formation” pic and was taken from some distance with some undisclosed amount of zoom.

  51. Phil 6 July, 2010 at 10:34 am #

    What you can’t see s the Typhoon behind he Rafale…..

  52. Phil 6 July, 2010 at 1:47 pm #

    Ask any potential foreign customer aircrew who have flown the competing aircraft, particularly Typhoon v Rafale during sales campaigns which one they’d prefer. Almost without exception they will tell you they’d prefer Typhoon – it’s more powerfull and more agile.
    ….and DO NOT ask an F-22 pilot about coming up against Typhoon on a visual one-on-one……he might blush. But you can try…..

  53. Dude 7 July, 2010 at 7:40 am #

    Modern fighter aircraft needs to be good at BOTH BVR and WVR engagements, that’s for sure. Hence the exercise.

    By the way, the object on the screen (detected by optics/OSF) might be a lot farther than it appeared. The chance is good that the Raptor pilot wasn’t aware of the ALA jet’s presence when the snapshot was taken via OSF.

  54. Ex-Airman 9 July, 2010 at 1:53 am #

    To Phil and the Typhoon fanboys…
    Still telling only one side of the story, eh? Read the 6th and 9th posts by boff (a Brit btw), to get a more balanced perspective.

    http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopic-t-6118-start-0.html

    In a world where just about everyone has HMS and HOBS heaters, which would you rather do: fight WVR or BVR?

  55. arun 10 July, 2010 at 7:26 am #

    Wait till the PAK FA comes. Then we will see as it will dominate all the fighters listed here.

  56. Jetcal1 12 July, 2010 at 1:57 pm #

    The days of an aircraft dominiating all aspects of combat are long gone and were a myth to boot. It is and always has been the ability of the pilot to choose when and how to engage the enemy.

    How many of these are still valid. or have been modified for BVR?

    Boelcke’s Dicta:
    Try to secure the upper hand before attacking. If possible, keep the sun behind you

    Always continue with an attack you have begun

    Only fire at close range, and then only when the opponent is properly in your sights

    You should always try to keep your eye on your opponent, and never let yourself be deceived by ruses

    In any type of attack, it is essential to assail your opponent from behind

    If your opponent dives on you, do not try to get around his attack, but fly to meet it

    When over the enemy’s lines, never forget your own line of retreat
    Tip for Squadrons: In principle, it is better to attack in groups of four or six. Avoid two aircraft attacking the same opponent

  57. Anonymous 14 July, 2010 at 7:42 am #

    “Ask any potential foreign customer aircrew who have flown the competing aircraft, particularly Typhoon v Rafale during sales campaigns which one they’d prefer. Almost without exception they will tell you they’d prefer Typhoon – it’s more powerfull and more agile.”

    1) Singapore dropped Typhoon before Rafale, and finally went with F15… the Sings are supposed to know their stuff
    2) Same thing in Korea
    3) UAE dropped Typhoon before going with F16 block 60 in late 90s… now they’re talking Rafales again, but no mention of Typhoon
    4) Raf pilot praises Rafale on this blog

    Pilot opinion doesn’t count much? ;)

  58. Radar Detector Reviews 19 July, 2010 at 2:23 am #

    Charity covers a multitude of sins.

  59. Dog Aggression 23 July, 2010 at 11:02 am #

    Good post, thanks

  60. michael 31 July, 2010 at 12:34 pm #

    In my humble opinion, as an impartial British observer, I believe RAFALE, especially once it receives certain enhancements such as its new active radar, up-rated OSF (maybe working in conjuntion at times with the Damocles pod) and above all the next generation SPECTRA which is due among other features, to incorporate the 360º MBDA IR missile detection suite already tested and about to enter service which, suppossedly as we can imagine will be able also to complement other IR threat sensors in hostile aircraft detection too, Plus the possibility of incorporating L- Band panels on both sides of the tail fin, should enable RAFALE to see Raptor & T-50, potencialy as effectively as the other way around.
    So, jammimg may be the key issue here. And the French have theoretically the know how and maybe the edge because of their experience in long range low-level penetration as implemented on Mirage IV, 2000N and now precisely on RAFALE in its nuclear strike role.
    Later, comes Meteor with maybe an IR version, Sextant Electronique or Sagen ‘Gerfaut’ helmet mounted sight (to get the best out of MICA) and, maybe, even an up-rated SNECMA M-88- 9 new powerplant (9 Tonnes) incorporating Kaveri India – patented 360º thrust reversers?
    All very current fully developed tecnologies,all capable of transforming or fully exploiting the plane’s inherent capabilities even further completely.
    ,

  61. michael 7 August, 2010 at 5:38 pm #

    How to convert Rafale into a potentially superior air defnce fighter is something very feasable. It is only a question of uprated systems integration and proper engineering concept planning. Its cost effectivenes is likely to be superior to that of any other fighter:
    First, we need that much delayed active radar currently in low – rate production, can be adapted with up to the minute technology such as moving antena for better corner distinction using ‘Gimbal’ technique.
    Secondly, taking advantage of its large area single fin the addition of flat L – Band panels (on both sides obviously) to assist in the detection of stealthy targets is possible.
    Thirdly, the up-rated SPECTRA suite incorporating the new MBDA IR 360º missile warning system can cover other target detection functions. Now tested and about to enter service.
    Four, the new generation OSF suite will be able to work in conjunction with the Damocles pod in the air to air search & target designation mode.
    Five, the helmet mounted sight for wvr combat to guide thrust vectoring rear – firing MICA (EM + IR) is available. This combination, plus Rafale’s 30º rearward raked angled seats provide a very important advantage over other platforms especially, WVR. BVR, it’s other advantage resides in being available iin twin – seat configuration, as workload is distributed much better & moreover, 4 can eyes see more than 2.
    Six, Meteor integration can including an IR variant possibly using the MICA – IR seeker for silent long range interception without energy loss being ramjet propulsion.
    Seven, taking into account SNECMA’s technical assistance arrangement with regards the troubled GTX-35VS ‘KAVERI engine (INDIA), we may see that power plant’s 360º directional nozzles adapted for use on an up-rated MM 88 – 9 tonne variant of the current engine. Thus providing the plane with an unbeatable thrust / weight ratio and manouverabillity. Plus a further reduced RCS due to the incorporation of new, practically bolt-on, air intakes.

    m.

  62. Uwe 1 October, 2013 at 4:29 pm #

    At this time I am going away to do my breakfast, afterward having
    my breakfast coming again to read further news.

  63. rose gold 12 October, 2013 at 7:00 pm #

    Nevertheless, it still stands that f-22 is toast. And everything else. We’ve seen it in the photos, so it’s true. Period.

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