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Aviation History
1917
1917 - 0326.PDF
APRIL 5, 1917. Lord Cowdray and Parliament.MR. BILLING on March 29th asked the Prime Minister whether the Chairman of the Air Board has expressed his willingness to meet the members of thisHouse for the purpose of debating the present position of our Air Services ; whether these proceedings will be private, and whether the Chairman is preparedto receive written questions prior to such a meeting, that he may be enabled to answer them at the meeting ; and also when is it proposed that this meetingshould take place, and where it will be held ? The Parliamentary Secretary to the Air Board (Major Baird) : The PrimeMinister has asked me to answer this question. The President of the Air Board has been asked by the hon. member for Brentford to meet a body of mem-bers of both Houses, known as the Parliamentary Air Committee, who desire to lay their views before him. Lord Cowdray has consented to do so. Thedate of the meeting is not fixed, but it will take place in the House of Commons after the Easter Adjournment. The procedure will be quite informal. Mr. Billing: Do we understand that that meeting is to be open to anymember of this House ? Major Baird : It depends upon whether he is a member of the Air Com-mittee, I imagine. Mr. Pringle : Will the Chairman of the Air Board follow the example of theFood Controller, and invite members generally to come ? Major Baird : One reason why they have not all been invited is that he wasnot asked to do so ; if he were asked to do it, I have no doubt my noble friend would find no difficulty whatever in meeting any member who may desire tomeet him. Mr. Lynch: As a member of the Air Committee of this House, may I protestagainst such a meeting being restricted to members of the Committee ? Mr. Speaker : The hon. member must ask a question, not make a statement.Major Baird : My noble friend was asked by the Chairman of the Parlia- mentary Air Committee whether he would meet the members of the Committee,and ne said " Yes," and it is difficult to see what reason there can be for objecting to that.Mr. Billing : Will the hon. and gallant gentleman give an undertaking that every member of this House shall receive an invitation? Mr. Faber: Is not Lord Cowdray a public official, and if he comes to theHouse of Commons as a public official can any meeting be restricted to the members of the Air Committee, or must it not of very necessity be extended toall members of the House ? Major Baird : I think other members can come if they want.Mr. Faber: Will my hon. and gallant friend put it much more clearly than that ? If no doubt other people can come, will he not say plainly that thismeeting is open to all members of the House ? Major Baird : I thought I had said so. If they want to come they can come. Mr. Joynson-Hicks : May I make a personal explanation ?• As Chairman ofthe Parliamentary Air Committee, with the sanction of the executive committee, I applied to Lord Cowdray to ask whether he would meet us to discuss certainpoints. I had no authority whatever to do so on behalf of the House generally, and it was purely a private meeting with a certain number of members who hadbanded themselves together. I should not have presumed to ask any Minister to meet the members of the House generally. The Training of Pilots.MR. BILLING asked whether the system of training pilots at present employed in the Royal Flying Corps is the same as that employed in January,1916 ? Mr. Macpherson : Yes, Sir, but as facilities have increased and greater demandshave been made from France the standard has been raised. Orders for Obsolete Machines.MR. BILLING asked the Parliamentary Representative of the Air Board whether aeroplane builders who have received Government orders for thebuilding of machines which are now considered obsolete or obsolescent for active service conditions have now had these orders cancelled ; and, if not, whythis has not been done ? Major Baird : I would refer the hon. member to the last part of the answerwhich I gave to him on the 7th instant. Responsibility for Building Policy.MR. BILLING asked the Under-Secretary of State for War whether the building policy of the Director-General of Military Aeronautics is being per-sisted in as to types and numbers ; whether he is still responsible for deciding as to types and numbers; and, if not, for what reason has he been relieved ofthese duties ? Major Baird : The responsibility for the design and supply of aeroplanesfor the use of the Royal Flying Corps (Military Wing) ceased to be vested in the Director-General of Military Aeronautics on the establishment of the presentarrangements whereby a joint system of design and supply for both the naval and military branches of the Air Service has been established under the AirBoard, of which Sir David Henderson is a member, and the Ministry of Munitions. Raids on Zeebrugge.MR. PEMBERTON BILLING, on March 30th, asked—(1) how many raids have been carried out at Zeebrugge in the past twelve months ; (2) whetherfor the past twelve months we have had sufficient pilots, machines and high explosive bombs stationed at Dunkirk to initiate raids on the submarine basesat Zeebrugge every night; and, if so, why a continuous bombardment of this enemy submarine headquarters has not been permitted ; and (3) on whoseauthority air raids at Zeebrugge and districts are initiated by the Royal Naval Air Service squadron situated in the Dunkirk district; and whether the localWing Commanders have power to initiate raids from time to time on definite objectives, or whether for each raid it is necessary to obtain definite instructionsfrom the Admiralty ? Dr. Macnamara : As regards these questions it is not considered desirablein the public interest to give the particulars asked for. Mr. Billing : May I ask the right hon. gentleman whether the Germans areunaware of the raids that we have made upon them in the past twelve months, and, under these circumstances, is it not possible to give us in this House factsof which the Germans must be aware if they have been raided ? Dr. Macnamara : It is more than likely that they are aware, but as regardsthese three questions, it is not considered in the public interests to give the particulars asked for. Mr. Billing: Is the right hon. gentleman aware that the whole submarinemenace at the present time is due to the weakness of the Royal Naval Air Service in not bombing Zeebrugge from the first ?Mr. Speaker : That does not arise out of the question on the Paper. R.N.A.S. and Experimental Machines.MR. BILLING asked whether the officials of the Royal Naval Air Service are still ordering machines on their own responsibility without consultationwith, or, alternatively, in opposition to, the views and wishes of the Air Board ?Dr. Macnamara : All orders for machines are placed by the Supply Depart- ment of the Air Board.Mr. Billing: Is the right hon. gentleman aware that the Royal Naval Air Service are giving orders for experimental machines in Scotland and elsewherewithout consultation with the Air Board, and is he aware that the Ministry of Munitions have just issued an Order stating that no firm is to be permittedto do this work, and what is the position of a firm which refuses an Admiralty official ?Mr. Speaker: The hon. member must give notice of that question. Officers' Distinguishing Marks. MR. BILLING asked the First Lord of the Admiralty whether he is awarethat distinguishing marks are worn on the uniforms of Squadron Commanders, Flight-Commanders and Flight-Lieutenants in the Royal Flying Corps for thepurpose of differentiating between these three ranks; and whether he will consider the desirability of adopting a similar system of differentiation in theRoyal Naval Air Service ? Dr. Macnamara : This matter is under consideration.Mr. Billing : Will the right hon. gentleman consider the advisability of having some distinguishing mark between a Flight-Lieutenant, a Flight Com-mander and a Squadron Commander in the Royal Naval Air Service, as the present position is most difficult ? Dr. Macnamara : I said that the matter is under consideration.Mr. Billing : Will the right hon. gentleman communicate to me the result ? Mr. Watt: Will the right hon. gentleman, say how long it has been underconsideration ? Dr. Macnamara : If the hon. member desires the information I will consultthe Air Board. Alterations in French Designs.MR. BILLING asked ths First Lord of the Admiralty whether he is aware that the wing fabric of a new aeroplane built in England to French design burstin the air recently ; whether this accident was due to the French structural design having been altered by an official or officers of the Royal Naval AirService ; whether this accident indicates that such alteration would have been a source of danger to pilots on active service ; and whether steps have beentaken to prevent a repetition of such tampering by Admiralty officials with designs of approved excellence ? Dr. Macnamara : As regards the first part of the question, such an accidentdid occur. It was not due to faulty design. Neither is it true to say that it was due to alteration in design by an official or officers of the Royal NavalAir Service. , Mr. Billing : Is the right hon. gentleman not aware that the fabric whichwas put in place of three-ply wood caused this accident, and that it was done against the advice of the contractor, but the Admiralty insisted upon it ? Mr. Booth : Was it supplied by a German firm, and found to be faulty ?Dr. Macnamara : I cannot say that. The hon. member must give me notice of the question. Design of R.N.A.S. Machines.MR. BILLING asked whether any officer or official at present concerned with the construction or origination of aeroplanes or who has planned designsfor the Royal Naval Air Service has ever produced a successful flying machine heavier than our type ; whether any such machines have been used on activeservice ; whether several officers who have produced successful designs before the war and joined the Royal Naval Air Service on or about the outbreak ofthe war have left the service and entered the employment of private firms : and whether the residue have been proved to possess sufficient ability to justifytheir being entrusted with the approval, alteration or condemnation of designs produced by private constructors of approved experience ? Dr. Macnamara : The answer to the first two parts of the question is in theaffirmative. As regards the third part, officers have been allowed to resign their commissions in order to enter the employment of private firms where ithas been clear that their experience and technical knowledge would be of advantage in the production of machines, and, therefore, in the public interest.As regards the last part of the question, the hon. gentleman is, of course, aware that the general question of the design of aircraft is now a matter which isdealt with by the Air Board. That being so, it does not appear to me that any useful purpose "would be served by discussing by way of question andanswer the abilities of the technical officers of the Royal Naval Air Depart- ment. Mr. Billing: Can the right hon. gentleman give me the name of any typeor the name of any given machine which these officers have designed which has been successful ? Dr. Macnamara : The hon. gentleman must put that question on the Paper. Orders for R.F.C. Aeroplane.MR. BILLING asked the Under-Secretary of State for War whether an aeroplane known as R.E. 7 is still employed for offensive work ; when was theorder first placed for this type ; how many were ordered ; how many have been delivered ; and whether it is proposed to take delivery of the balance,or whether the orders have been cancelled and the contractors compensated, so that they may apply their labour to more productive work ? Major Baird : The answer to the first part of the question is in the negative ;to the second, third and fourth parts that it is not in the interest of the country that details of this kind should be published ; and to the last part of thequestion that deliveries of this machine ceased some time ago. Mr. Billing asked what is the total number of aeroplanes which have beenordered by the Royal Flying Corps since the outbreak of war, and what is the total number of machines which have been used for active service trainingpurposes, respectively ? Major Baird : It would not be in the interests of the country to give thisinformation. Mr. Billing asked when the Order for R.E. 8s was placed ; what number wasordered ; how many have been delivered ; whether any serious accidents have happened to the pilots flying these machines; and, if so, to what reasons arethese accidents attributed ; whether it was intended to employ these machines upon active service against the enemy ; and, if not, for what purpose werethey ordered ? Major Baird : Contracts for the aeroplanes referred to have been placed atvarious dates, but it- is not desirable to publish the numbers of machines ordered or delivered. Several fatal accidents have happened to pilots flyingthis machine, the majority of which have been attributed by the Courts of Enquiry to some error of judgment on the part of the pilot. The machine isnot an easy one to fly, but its qualities render it of great value for service in the field, where it is now employed in considerable numbers. The possibilityof structural alteration in the type is receiving the fullest consideration. Mr. Billing asked the First Lord of the Admiralty what is the total numberof aeroplanes which have been ordered by the Royal Naval Air Service since the outbreak of war. and what is the total number of machines which havebeen used for active service training purposes respectively ? Dr. Macnamara : I must decline to give the numbers asked for. Machines for Training Pilots.MR. BILLING asked the First Lord of the Admiralty what type of machine is employed for the training of pilots for land flying in the Royal Naval AirService in the early stages ? Dr. Macnamara : The machines employed for the purpose are principallyAvro and Maurice Farman type. Mr. Billing asked what types of machines are now employed for the trainrogof pilots in the Royal Flying Corps in the early stages ? Mr. Macpherson : Maurice Farmans and Grahame-White aeroplanes are nse«for elementary training. 326
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